SMART Payback Email

[Sisyphus]

Why don't yall face the punishment for leaving early? You had MULTIPLE warnings before accepting the scholarship and still agreed with the terms and conditions. Quit being babies, crying to attornies, and just suck it up buttercups

Not just don't know how graduate school does (or doesn't as the case often is) work. How about not wanting to tolerate abusive SF working environments... or SMART not doing it's job finding you a new SF and just throwing you away... or tried to get you to re-sign on less favorable terms and threw you out for refusing...

Yeah those were sure in the terms and conditions that people should accept life ruining debt for all right

Don't speak to things you know nothing of.

[FaceTheFacts]

Why don't yall face the punishment for leaving early? You had MULTIPLE warnings before accepting the scholarship and still agreed with the terms and conditions. Quit being babies, crying to attornies, and just suck it up buttercups

Not just don't know how graduate school does (or doesn't as the case often is) work. How about not wanting to tolerate abusive SF working environments... or SMART not doing it's job finding you a new SF and just throwing you away... or tried to get you to re-sign on less favorable terms and threw you out for refusing...

Yeah those were sure in the terms and conditions that people should accept life ruining debt for all right :roll:

Don't speak to things you know nothing of.

Well in that case, I apologize.

[Sisyphus]

Having gone through it first hand and collected numerous other stories even worse than mine, when I see SMART being given the benefit of the doubt on general repayment I get...just a lil bit salty.

Still, SMART doesn't exactly make it easy to see any of its failures, so no hard feelings.

[Guest1010]

There are some of doing just that, paying back and happy to put this behind us. I left the program because the PhD I spent half a decade getting was effectively being put in the trash by my SF. Even if I wanted to do research on my own, I did not get the necessary support at my SF (refused to allow me to travel to present my own papers at top conferences). Sure I can complain, but I also know it is useless because yes I signed a contract and yes I saw it comming. The government operates on a set of rules designed for the lowest common denominator. No logic, empathy, or case-by-case consideration can be expected. I'm just thankful that all I owe them is a bit of money (ok alot of money) and nothing more.

Why don't yall face the punishment for leaving early? You had MULTIPLE warnings before accepting the scholarship and still agreed with the terms and conditions. Quit being babies, crying to attornies, and just suck it up buttercups

Not just don't know how graduate school does (or doesn't as the case often is) work. How about not wanting to tolerate abusive SF working environments... or SMART not doing it's job finding you a new SF and just throwing you away... or tried to get you to re-sign on less favorable terms and threw you out for refusing...

Yeah those were sure in the terms and conditions that people should accept life ruining debt for all right :roll:

Don't speak to things you know nothing of.

Well in that case, I apologize.

[helpme]

I called DFAS and talked to them today. Though I have not received my letter, by I am told it’s in the mail and expect to receive it soon, I learned what I owe. Since few are giving details other than “received letter” I’ll do my best to provide some clarity:

1. my amount owed was prorated.
2. The base amount used for payback calculation included everything but the money for heath insurance and internship money.
3. The terms of payback are 36 months to pay back the entire amount with 1% interest. So, to determine your Mo that payment take the prorated amount (exclude health insurance and any internship stipend payments) and multiply by 1.01z Dicus the result by 36. That is your expected monthly payment.
4. If you have extenduating circumstances, you can fill out a financial hardship form and send it to DFAS.
4.a. this includes a form detailing your finances: balances in all checking/savings/cash accounts, 3 Mo the of pay stubs, assets, debt obligations, etc.
5. You can appeal the amount owed one settlement) by submitting an explanation plus detailed financial work (see 4.a).
5.a. This review process takes 30-60 days (first in first out policy) and you still must make monthly payments while in review.
5.b. If your settlement amount is accepted, you have 30 days to pay the settlement amount or go back to the monthly collection amount.
5.c Any money collected prior to an settlement agreement (if DFAS agrees to settle) will NOT count towards your settlement agreement balance. So, if you try settlement make sure to include at least 2 months of payments .
6. My last smart payout/stipend/disbursement was end of 2013. My debt owed does NOT include the fact I paid taxes on this money but can no longer amend my return. According to DFAS, if the debt is considered “taxable debt” I’ll receive a form, from DFAS, explaining this and I include it in my 2018 tax return. I will then receive either a credit/deduction (depending on the refund amount).

All this information was gathered by speaking with a DFAS representative. Though I had not received a letter about repayment, as was proactive and called DFAS. I had to wait about 30 minutes but I found out a lot of good information (I.e. above). I also found out my letter is in the mail (as of April 17th) and expect to receive it soon. The DFAS people were very helpful and friendly. The lady even offered to help me out in a request to see all the documents SMART sent to DFAS to support debt collection. I am not happy about the situation but my amount I owe (according to DFAS) is fair expect for no discount for paying taxes. I strongly recommend those who withdrew early get out in front of this. Call DFAS and ask for the forms to appeal the amount owed. Worst case, you continue to make the minimum payments. If you owe money and have not received money I would plan to receive one my Monday/Tuesday of next week. The interest terms are quite resonabale (if you have the money put it in a online back where the interest earned is greater than the 1% SMART is charging).

Everyone’s circumstances are different and so I strongly suggest the settlement and/or financial hardship form while you make the minimum payments. Again, I know a lot of people are upset and we’re hoping not pay back anything, but we all knew the terms when we signed up and we must pay the piper.

For those wondering, I was a recruitment candidate and had a 1.5 year service commitment. My prorated amount is 5 figures and close to what I expected. I would say SMART is being white reasonable with the payback, though I’m sure a lot of people will disagree. Good luck to all!

Hold on please tell me i'm reading this incorrectly...you are being given 36 months to pay off the entire loan amount!? So if you owe 100k, you are expected to pay $2800 per month?

[testtest]

I called DFAS today. I'm wanted to inquire about possibly getting a tax credit for the tax that I have paid on the stipend.

The lady just said they didn't give tax advice so I didn't get anywhere with them.

Has anyone made any progress on this?

[Guestchris]

I called DFAS today. I'm wanted to inquire about possibly getting a tax credit for the tax that I have paid on the stipend.

The lady just said they didn't give tax advice so I didn't get anywhere with them.

Has anyone made any progress on this?

Work with a CPA on your next tax return. It can be tedious, but I believe you file an itemized deduction when trying to recoup taxes paid.

[Guest12435261]

All-

When I left/quit/"defaulted" it was more like I was forced out by my SF, so at the time it happened I went through several conversations with attorneys specializing in federal employment law. Given the high state of anxiety of myself and the others in this thread, I thought I would share some of the information I was provided.

First, on extensions: I was also a PhD student, and like most PhD students in this nation I did not finish within the five-year timeframe that is allotted by SMART. Even though my extension was minor (<1/2 year) I received relatively little understanding from the SMART office when I tried to discuss an extension with them, and they repeatedly used phrases like "we paid for you, we deserve to get what we paid for" (verbatim quote over the phone, I wrote it down because I found it so appalling). However, they backed off a bit after my sponsoring facility stated in writing that it was more important to them that I receive my degree rather than have me the small number of months earlier but without the degree. Therefore my strong impression was that, as consistent with their behavior on other issues for numerous other students on these forums, SMART just did whatever the SF wanted.

Once I entered Phase II, I felt I was forced out by openly hostile behavior by the management of my SF. I'm not going to go into the nitty gritty details here, but suffice it to say that many of their actions (which they admitted to in writing) were in violation of OMB policy. Some of their actions would have been downright illegal in private industry, but apparently according to the attorneys I spoke with the federal government has immunity from most employment laws and regulations.

That brings me to my final point: the advice of the attorneys. They both stated that, given the federal immunity to standard employment laws, the *only* recourse to address unfair treatment of a federal employee (even if the case did not seemed to be related to equal employment issues) was an EEOC complaint. Since I had spent time trying to resolve the issues first via every professional avenue I could think of (eg, communicating with management, communicating with HR, communicating with SMART, request for transfer to other management, request for transfer to another SF), the 45-day statute of limitations for a civil service EEOC complaint had expired. Also an EEOC complaint is just not my style- all I wanted was to be treated properly and without my management misusing my contract to enact policies specific to me as they attempted to make me "pay back" everything SMART gave me (their phrasing to me in justification of their actions).

Obviously this information is specific to my case and not everyone else's, so here comes the more general legal info as I was told it:

Our contracts are legally binding, even though they present no clauses for mediation or appeal given any kind of extenuating circumstances during any phase of the program. Apparently the time to negotiate for inclusion of such clauses would have been at the time we accepted the scholarship and signed the contracts. However, I don't know about you guys, but for me personally as a young student with a hefty dose of patriotic allegiance to my country I was mostly excited about the opportunity to serve my nation and did not have the savvy or worldly experience to anticipate being screwed over so heartily by my own government and think to negotiate the contract.

Both attorneys recommended that I begin writing letters to Congress. Apparently our Congresspeople can do whatever they want to both the contracts and the debts (including negating them or setting up terms for repayment), and short of that there is not much to be done.

I do agree that for those that simply wanted to leave repayment of debt is a reasonable expectation, but even for those cases the students deserve more information on the timeline and manner of repayment. There are those of us, however, that fell through the cracks of the intentions of the program. I am starting to flood every Congressional rep I can think of with letters starting today, and I really hope that the other people like me who want the terms of our contracts examined will do the same. This is not how our federal government should be treating people who genuinely just wanted to serve our country.

What did your letters say? Did you ever hear a response?

[TheyStolemyTaxMoney]

I called DFAS today. I'm wanted to inquire about possibly getting a tax credit for the tax that I have paid on the stipend.

The lady just said they didn't give tax advice so I didn't get anywhere with them.

Has anyone made any progress on this?

Work with a CPA on your next tax return. It can be tedious, but I believe you file an itemized deduction when trying to recoup taxes paid.

Anyone have luck with this? This is the part I am most interested in

[DisillusionedScholar]

My debt case against SMART / DFAS has been officially dismissed. With the help of my attorney, Heather Tenney (Tully-Rinky Albany NY), the council (attorneys) at the Department of the Navy (Research, Development and Acquisition) determined the SMART Scholarship tuition and financial assistance I received does not need to be refunded. I have signed acknowledgments from both the DOD and DFAS to confirm.

This has been a long, tedious process requiring a lot of prayer. The best advice I can give is document everything and put your case together. There are legitimate problems with the SMART scholarship program regarding scholar mistreatment by sponsoring facilities (EEO/No Fear Act violations, exploitation, retaliation etc.), lack of due process / oversight, no appeals process, and breach of contracts signed in good faith.

For my case, I wrote a debt dispute and hearing petition to DFAS highlighting violations of federal statutes (Title 10 Ch 111 Sec 2192A SMART / EEO) supported by personal testimony, emails, and other documents. I also wrote my two U.S. Senators and Congressman. Both Senator's offices launched formal inquiries with DFAS and the DOD. I mailed $50 check payments (wrote disputed debt on check) to DFAS during this process to keep the account from getting reported to credit bureaus and private collection agencies (I did not fill out a financial hardship form). After 2 months of getting the run around, I retained Heather Tenney. She contacted DFAS and was able to get collections suspended. She also contacted the DOD/Navy Council and got them to cancel the debt and resolve the issue with DFAS. I believe her added legal pressure created the "perfect storm" with my dispute documentation and the congressional inquiries which were already under review by the DOD and due a response.

I suspect there will be more changes to the SMART program due to the experiences many of us have faced. Hopefully there will be reform that helps protect current and future scholars. If you're contemplating leaving the program, I suggest refusing to sign any voluntary termination or service agreement amendment forms (I refused to sign and was dismissed) and contact an attorney specializing in military law. I was impressed with Heather's expertise- very responsive, detailed, and identified important aspects of my case that I did not recognize.

Hope it works out for you.
Good luck!

[anymouse]

My debt case against SMART / DFAS has been officially dismissed. With the help of my attorney, Heather Tenney (Tully-Rinky Albany NY), the council (attorneys) at the Department of the Navy (Research, Development and Acquisition) determined the SMART Scholarship tuition and financial assistance I received does not need to be refunded. I have signed acknowledgments from both the DOD and DFAS to confirm.

This has been a long, tedious process requiring a lot of prayer. The best advice I can give is document everything and put your case together. There are legitimate problems with the SMART scholarship program regarding scholar mistreatment by sponsoring facilities (EEO/No Fear Act violations, exploitation, retaliation etc.), lack of due process / oversight, no appeals process, and breach of contracts signed in good faith.

For my case, I wrote a debt dispute and hearing petition to DFAS highlighting violations of federal statutes (Title 10 Ch 111 Sec 2192A SMART / EEO) supported by personal testimony, emails, and other documents. I also wrote my two U.S. Senators and Congressman. Both Senator's offices launched formal inquiries with DFAS and the DOD. I mailed $50 check payments (wrote disputed debt on check) to DFAS during this process to keep the account from getting reported to credit bureaus and private collection agencies (I did not fill out a financial hardship form). After 2 months of getting the run around, I retained Heather Tenney. She contacted DFAS and was able to get collections suspended. She also contacted the DOD/Navy Council and got them to cancel the debt and resolve the issue with DFAS. I believe her added legal pressure created the "perfect storm" with my dispute documentation and the congressional inquiries which were already under review by the DOD and due a response.

I suspect there will be more changes to the SMART program due to the experiences many of us have faced. Hopefully there will be reform that helps protect current and future scholars. If you're contemplating leaving the program, I suggest refusing to sign any voluntary termination or service agreement amendment forms (I refused to sign and was dismissed) and contact an attorney specializing in military law. I was impressed with Heather's expertise- very responsive, detailed, and identified important aspects of my case that I did not recognize.

Hope it works out for you.
Good luck!

Thank you for sharing this, and congratulations. I'm in the process of putting together my own petition for debt hearing. I'd like to write to my state representative too. Would you mind sharing the gist of what you wrote to your state reps? I'd like to optimize my chances of getting my reps' attention.

My story sounds similar to yours. I was dismissed for not signing my SAAR too, because they wouldn't elaborate on the questions I had pertaining to the Compliance Section (where you have too initial), they just kept citing the Handbook, which did not contain sufficient detail.

The thing is, I had submitted a SAAR before, that had been approved, even though I had not initialed anything in the Compliance section. I even pointed this out in the email in which I submitted my SAAR, citing that "I did not understand ...", and the next response I got was that my SAAR was approved.

[SmartDefaultCase]

First, congratulations on getting your entire debt nullified. Do you mind telling us how much SMART was attempting to collect back? Also, could you provide a more detailed process (if you could provide) about how you went about this and getting your debt nullified. How did you start the dispute process with SMART? Also, why did you leave SMART? Do you know how she got the debt process suspended? What was in your dispute documentation?

My debt case against SMART / DFAS has been officially dismissed. With the help of my attorney, Heather Tenney (Tully-Rinky Albany NY), the council (attorneys) at the Department of the Navy (Research, Development and Acquisition) determined the SMART Scholarship tuition and financial assistance I received does not need to be refunded. I have signed acknowledgments from both the DOD and DFAS to confirm.

This has been a long, tedious process requiring a lot of prayer. The best advice I can give is document everything and put your case together. There are legitimate problems with the SMART scholarship program regarding scholar mistreatment by sponsoring facilities (EEO/No Fear Act violations, exploitation, retaliation etc.), lack of due process / oversight, no appeals process, and breach of contracts signed in good faith.

For my case, I wrote a debt dispute and hearing petition to DFAS highlighting violations of federal statutes (Title 10 Ch 111 Sec 2192A SMART / EEO) supported by personal testimony, emails, and other documents. I also wrote my two U.S. Senators and Congressman. Both Senator's offices launched formal inquiries with DFAS and the DOD. I mailed $50 check payments (wrote disputed debt on check) to DFAS during this process to keep the account from getting reported to credit bureaus and private collection agencies (I did not fill out a financial hardship form). After 2 months of getting the run around, I retained Heather Tenney. She contacted DFAS and was able to get collections suspended. She also contacted the DOD/Navy Council and got them to cancel the debt and resolve the issue with DFAS. I believe her added legal pressure created the "perfect storm" with my dispute documentation and the congressional inquiries which were already under review by the DOD and due a response.

I suspect there will be more changes to the SMART program due to the experiences many of us have faced. Hopefully there will be reform that helps protect current and future scholars. If you're contemplating leaving the program, I suggest refusing to sign any voluntary termination or service agreement amendment forms (I refused to sign and was dismissed) and contact an attorney specializing in military law. I was impressed with Heather's expertise- very responsive, detailed, and identified important aspects of my case that I did not recognize.

Hope it works out for you.
Good luck!

[seriously]

Thank you for sharing this, and congratulations. I'm in the process of putting together my own petition for debt hearing. I'd like to write to my state representative too. Would you mind sharing the gist of what you wrote to your state reps? I'd like to optimize my chances of getting my reps' attention.

My story sounds similar to yours. I was dismissed for not signing my SAAR too, because they wouldn't elaborate on the questions I had pertaining to the Compliance Section (where you have too initial), they just kept citing the Handbook, which did not contain sufficient detail.

The thing is, I had submitted a SAAR before, that had been approved, even though I had not initialed anything in the Compliance section. I even pointed this out in the email in which I submitted my SAAR, citing that "I did not understand ...", and the next response I got was that my SAAR was approved.[/quote]

I saw this and had to respond. You were dismissed for not signing your SAAR?!?! You put thousands of dollars of debt and years of potential repayment on yourself because you didn't want to sign a SAAR. Is there a deeper part to this story? Because if you seriously risked everything by not signing a form where you agree to not fuck around on the internet then you 100% do not deserve to have your debt forgiven.

[somanyquestions]

Yep guys here come the letters. Official DFAS bills.

I just got mine. It does look to be prorated, which I'm thankful for, but no explanation on how they did it. I fulfilled about 30% of my contract time and they took off about 30% or so off the entire bill.

However, I feel I might have an argument to further proration. I paid around 20% taxes on the stipends I received. I'd also argue that the intern support payments (of which I also paid taxes on), or a portion of it, should be not included (but yes, I know, that's not what the contract say). I was also forced to quit my day job while taking the scholarship stipend by SMART so I lost my additional income stream.

I also left due to incompetence of my SF. I sat in a cubical by myself for 6 weeks with nothing to do. They couldn't figure out how to get me a laptop. When I did get a laptop, was not given meaningful work and nothing related to what I studied in college. I left for a DoD contractor. I do much more meaningful work now, work that impacts the DoD much more directly than I would have with my SF.

Anyone going to try to make any of these points to DFAS, a lawyer, or anyone? It looks like DFAS has an official "Debt Protest" ticket submission. Anyone going to try that?

I'm considering doing the same for the exact same reason. I'm 10 months into a 3 year commitment and have yet to be given any kind of meaningful work to do. I asked my supervisor and senior rater for work and was told that "sometimes it's good to not have work to do". I am interviewing for contractor positions now...I have applied to a number of GS positions at other organizations, but so far no luck. The contractor position will pay me ~40-50k more than my GS-11, with comparable benefits. Do you have any updates on your situation? Are you happier? Has there been some kind of resolution to your repayment questions?