Participant Initiated Transfer

[GeorgeMichaelBluth]

I'm another participant who is unhappy with their placement and is desperate to pursue a real research or even engineering position.
Larry, a beacon of hope from an otherwise murky Program Office, has advocated participants to

take personal, proactive, action to move elsewhere.

Even going so far as to say

If the SMART Scholar can find a new position and both facilities are agreeable than I think it would be natural to approve the change. I can't imagine having an employee that wanted to be elsewhere and not helping get where they want to be... This is a decision for the individual Service, the facilities and the scholar - not the SMART Program Office. http://thesmartforum.org/viewtopic.php? ... de45#p6337

However, this is in direct contradiction with Program Office policy (2010 SMART Participant Handbook):

All Participants are required to complete internship and post‐graduation commitments with their
assigned SF approved by the SPO. Participants may not choose to complete their service commitments
with a facility other than their assigned SF approved by the SPO.  
Only the SPO may reassign a Participant to a new SF. It is extremely unusual for the Program to assign a
Participant to a facility other than the original SF for completion of the service commitment.  In the rare
case that a change of SF is considered, it is done on a case‐by‐case basis and at the discretion of the SPO.  
If the SPO determines that the match between the SF and Participant is not viable, the SPO will work
with the SF and attempt to find alternative placement for the Participant.
...
A Participant may not ask his/her SF to initiate a request with the SPO to reassign him/her to a new
facility, contact other DoD facilities in search of a new sponsor, or take other acts intended to
circumvent this policy.  Facility requests to reassign Participants are extremely rare and fully investigated
by the SPO.   If the SPO learns that the SF has lost interest in sponsoring a Participant due to his/her
purposeful actions intended to circumvent this policy and/or that the requested change was actually
initiated by the Participant rather than by the SF and based on circumstances the SPO does not consider
exceptional, the Participant will be considered to be acting in bad faith and may be dismissed from the
Program.

It sounds to me like the inquisition will be called in to make sure SMART participants stay where they are, no matter how bad it is.

Larry, if Fitzsimmons hasn't scared you off the forum entirely, can you reconcile your advice with the policy? Judging by the recent disclaimer posts, I'm inclined to trust the policy over the more hopeful unofficial feedback we've gotten.

Everyone else, has anyone ever successfully transferred to a better position?

[e3sentry]

Yeah, Larry makes it sound like if you don't like where you are, you can just go somewhere else. It's really not that easy.

I did change SFs, and it took a solid year (I have a 2.5 year commitment).

So yes, it's possible. In my case, the entire process was horrible. It's a lot of legwork, and there will probably be some unexpected surprises along the way.

For instance, when I got to my new SF, they informed me that they were going to start me over at a GS-7 (I was just about to get my GS-9 promotion). I fought with them on that issue for six months and accomplished nothing. I even have an email from my new SFs HR rep (sent before I transferred) assuring me that I will still get my GS-9 promotion on schedule.

By the time I get my GS-9, I will have been a GS-7 for 22 months. Sweet deal, huh?

You're the only one who can decide if the move is worth the hassle. Good luck.

There's always money in the banana stand.

[frustSMAR]

My advice would be to find a place you'd like to move to through the normal (e.g., USAJobs) and non-normal (e.g., direct contact with facilities) means and keep your SF-50 near along the way. You can't "Just go somewhere else", but it get's easier if you get an offer to be hired somewhere else.

You may have some hassles but it sounds like the above issue had more to do with not having a clear offer in hand before switching, which was unfortunate.

Get out, and talk with people, and possibly give talks if you're looking for a research position. Survey the labs out there (there's a list at http://www.acq.osd.mil/rd/ which may be useful) and see if there are any matches. When I've talked to people one thing that has always come up is making sure you are not a burden on your current employer throughout the process.

This is general advice, but hopefully helpful.

[e3sentry]

Actually, the correspondence between me and my new SF was very clear. They just decided they weren't going to honor it after I had packed up my life and moved several hundred miles to work for them. Is it really that hard for you to believe? They do this stuff all the time. If you would like to see the paperwork and email exchange, I would be happy to present them.

Trust me, it was much more than unfortunate. It was patently wrong and morally reprehensible. If you think for a second that any type of language in your offer is going to protect you, think again. If they want to screw you over, they're going to do it.

Oh and I forgot to mention one other thing. When I was interviewing they told me there would be 4 months of training required for the job. No problem, right? I'll take training any way I can get it. I love developing new skills.

As soon as I got to my new SF, they decided it was a good time to let me know that the training has a 3 to 1 payback. So it's going to add another year onto my service contract. Remember, this is REQUIRED training. So now I get to decide if I want to leave the SMART program early (before training starts), or be forced to stay an extra year. Great choice, huh?

Once you start in the SMART program, you have very little control over what happens to you. If anyone thinks they should sign on and just change SFs if they aren't happy, I would think again.

But maybe @frustSMAR is right. I guess I should have asked them to express in writing all of the ways they were going to make me regret that I ever signed on with SMART.

[frustSmar]

@e3sentry I'm not trying to argue that you didn't experience hassles, just that it may not be the norm just because you experienced it. Your case does highlight the need to get as much information as possible, which is something I'd encourage either way.
It certainly is unfortunate to hear another case of "We don't have a spot for you anymore" and (if it went down like you recount) that the place you switched to has very questionable practices.

I would never advice someone to sign on and just switch SFs if they aren't happy. No matter how difficult the switch itself is, you still need to find a place to switch to. It isn't guaranteed that you'll be able to find another place before the committment is even over given the funding and hiring climate in many of the agencies. Also of note is that a lot of research groups I've come into contact with use their PostDoc programs as filters into full-time gov't hires which makes just transferring much more difficult.

What all of this means is that the footwork required is fairly tremendous, but their are likely plenty of different takes on how easy the process itself is, because we all deal with different people at different times.

[Guest]

@e3sentry did they not give you PCS orders before moving?

[e3sentry]

I can agree that others may have had a better experience than I did (I certainly doubt anyone had a worse one).

I'm sure my case is on one extreme end of the spectrum. I just want people to know that they have to be careful. Nothing ever seems to go to plan. You also put yourself at a disadvantage, because if (when) things go wrong with your move, people almost act like you asked for it.

I just don't want anyone else to go through this. I can tell you from personal experience, it's very hard when you have kids to take care of and your employer decides to take $10,000 from your family just because they can. It's pretty pathetic.

[e3sentry]

PCS orders don't say anything about when you're due for promotion.

[e3sentry]

In other words, I knew I was coming on as a GS-7, but I had written confirmation from HR that I would come up for my GS-9 promotion in a couple months.

When I got there, they said Nope, we're starting your clock over.

I'll go ahead and log back on after the weekend and tell the whole story.

[Guest]

I almost never believe stories like this. The SF has no say so on the commitment at all. The SMART program office does and the contract language. You remain employed at your SF for the duration and the SF can go sit and spin. This forum is full of exaggerators. Feel free to respond with whatever rebuttals. I don't care enough to read it. Other people should just remember that the internet is full of angry people who make stuff up and spin stories to ignite fear in others...a lot like the media. They should all go work for CNN.

[Guest]

The SF has no say so on the commitment at all.

If the SF refuses to hire you after graduation, the SMART Program cannot force them.

SF have much more sway over your service commitment than the SMART Program does... and that's the big secret the program office would like to change (or hide from scholars).

You're at the mercy of the SF all the way. The problems come when you commit to the SMART Program and they haven't secured an equally binding commitment from the SF.

[Guest45]

I almost never believe stories like this. The SF has no say so on the commitment at all. The SMART program office does and the contract language. You remain employed at your SF for the duration and the SF can go sit and spin. This forum is full of exaggerators. Feel free to respond with whatever rebuttals. I don't care enough to read it. Other people should just remember that the internet is full of angry people who make stuff up and spin stories to ignite fear in others...a lot like the media. They should all go work for CNN.

Wow that's...pretty incoherent. I can't really tell what you're saying. The SF absolutely controls everything about a participant's pay, and if they want to deny you a promotion, that's what they're going to do. The scenario that's outlined above doesn't surprise me at all.

Also, your theory about "angry people" making things up to hurt the SMART scholarship doesn't really add up. If the SMART scholarship is so great, why are so many people pissed off? Seems like they should be happy. Where do all of the happy people post their experiences? Not here, because I've never seen a phase 2 smart that was happy with the program.

The only "exaggeration" that I've seen in my experience with the SMART scholarship is the propaganda that's found at the smart.asee website.

[Guest]

I almost never believe stories like this. The SF has no say so on the commitment at all. The SMART program office does and the contract language. You remain employed at your SF for the duration and the SF can go sit and spin. This forum is full of exaggerators. Feel free to respond with whatever rebuttals. I don't care enough to read it. Other people should just remember that the internet is full of angry people who make stuff up and spin stories to ignite fear in others...a lot like the media. They should all go work for CNN.

I'm fairly certain whoever wrote this wasn't a SMART scholar, for several reasons. 1) Their feelings are clearly hurt by negative comments made about the SMART program. I've only ever seen that response from gov't and SPO employees. 2) It's very poorly worded (that's a nice way of putting it). I would expect more from a SMART. Then again, maybe English is the author's second language. 3) Sit and spin? WTF.