Given that a fresh round of meat has been admitted to the program, and it's been a long time since I posted here, if anyone has been thrown out of, left under adverse circumstances, or otherwise has had significant problems with the SMART program the Debtor's Discord is still being operated:
https://discord.gg/MEhgRRC
Further, if you are a debtor to the program and have never talked to me directly (Sisyphus, discord admin) this month would be a good time to introduce yourself if you feel in any way (illegitimately) victimized by the SMART program... Find me in the discord for details.
NOTICE:
The purpose of this discord is primarily for discussion of dealing with SMART imposed debt and all surrounding circumstances, not a general forum for questions about other aspects of SMART. Anyone wandering in and doing so is subject to moderation.
However, any questions about what can/has gone wrong resulting in participants leaving/being expelled from the program and saddled with often crippling debt are fair game to better educate incoming participants on the failure modes of the program.
You would be advised to consider that part of the possibility (and given program history, probability) space before signing on the dotted line.
Debtor's Discord Refresher
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
Bumpity bump because apparently more letters went out...
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
October 1st comes and goes, and apparently so too does the COVID hibernation for SMART and DFAS...
If you've been waiting in debt limbo for a while, winter is probably coming sooner than you'd like...
If you've been waiting in debt limbo for a while, winter is probably coming sooner than you'd like...
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
*bumpity bump while I delete the spam*
-
ZiggySasha234
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:50 am
- Contact:
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
Hello, I'm confused what you mean by debt incurred by smart? As far as I understand this program provides funding and there is no debt incurred on recipients. Can you elaborate on what this discussion is about?
-
Phase 2 scholar
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
Recipients default on their obligations to the program owe the amount SMART paid for their tuition and their stipends.
This can occur when someone fails to complete their educational program or maintain their GPA at or above what is required.
If you finish your program, and then leave your government position before the end of phase 2, you will owe a prorated rate, based on the remaining time you were supposed to stay at your sponsoring facility.
As you might imagine, there are lots of reasons someone might leave the program with a pile of debt: under-appreciation or mistreatment by sponsoring facility, research advisor who won't let student graduate, illness, change in family circumstance, seeking higher pay elsewhere, issues with security clearance, issue or disagreement with requirements imposed on employees, lower academic performance than expected, delays in graduation due to course scheduling/research taking longer than expected, ect. (To see some real-life stories, join the Discord.) You can submit service agreement amendment requests to try to work past at least some of these issues, and SMART has accepted many of those SAARs, but others have found themselves with limited options and burdened with lots of debt.
This can occur when someone fails to complete their educational program or maintain their GPA at or above what is required.
If you finish your program, and then leave your government position before the end of phase 2, you will owe a prorated rate, based on the remaining time you were supposed to stay at your sponsoring facility.
As you might imagine, there are lots of reasons someone might leave the program with a pile of debt: under-appreciation or mistreatment by sponsoring facility, research advisor who won't let student graduate, illness, change in family circumstance, seeking higher pay elsewhere, issues with security clearance, issue or disagreement with requirements imposed on employees, lower academic performance than expected, delays in graduation due to course scheduling/research taking longer than expected, ect. (To see some real-life stories, join the Discord.) You can submit service agreement amendment requests to try to work past at least some of these issues, and SMART has accepted many of those SAARs, but others have found themselves with limited options and burdened with lots of debt.
-
ZiggySasha234
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:50 am
- Contact:
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
Ahh, interesting. I see the biggest risk here being research taking too long or dropping out of masters program. All the more reason to do this as an undergraduate. How many people had a bad experience at a facility?
-
Phase 2 Scholar
Re: Debtor's Discord Refresher
I don't have numbers or personal experience on the facility question, but I don't think it's that uncommon. I know there are facilities that participate in the SMART program that struggle with employee recruitment and retention. (In fact, SMART might even prioritize those facilities, viewing their role as a recruitment and retention tool? I thought I read that somewhere, but I cannot remember where.)
I'm sure it doesn't help that for most SMART scholars, an in-person visit doesn't happen until after the scholar is assigned to a sponsoring facility.
Sometimes, a sponsoring facility is a bad fit for the scholar. Maybe the facility doesn't need the skill-set that the scholar has. (Ideally, they'd recruit scholars based on the program they are in, but sometimes facilities are just looking for people to fill empty roles.) I saw one thread on this forum, in which a scholar complained that non-SMART new hires were receiving higher pay, exploiting the SMART contract's phase 2 work requirement to compel scholars to work for less. To be clear, that was just one person's testimonial, and it doesn't happen everywhere.
There is some inherent risk in committing to taking a job a year or more ahead of time, without knowing how much you'll be paid or what the work environment will be like. Even if things are great when you start the program, there's no guarantee that things will stay the same until you finish your degree and start working. In my personal experience, my internships were with a different division in my sponsoring facility than the division I was placed in upon graduation. It's not a terrible place to work, but it is very different work from what I thought I was signing up for when I joined SMART.
I'm sure it doesn't help that for most SMART scholars, an in-person visit doesn't happen until after the scholar is assigned to a sponsoring facility.
Sometimes, a sponsoring facility is a bad fit for the scholar. Maybe the facility doesn't need the skill-set that the scholar has. (Ideally, they'd recruit scholars based on the program they are in, but sometimes facilities are just looking for people to fill empty roles.) I saw one thread on this forum, in which a scholar complained that non-SMART new hires were receiving higher pay, exploiting the SMART contract's phase 2 work requirement to compel scholars to work for less. To be clear, that was just one person's testimonial, and it doesn't happen everywhere.
There is some inherent risk in committing to taking a job a year or more ahead of time, without knowing how much you'll be paid or what the work environment will be like. Even if things are great when you start the program, there's no guarantee that things will stay the same until you finish your degree and start working. In my personal experience, my internships were with a different division in my sponsoring facility than the division I was placed in upon graduation. It's not a terrible place to work, but it is very different work from what I thought I was signing up for when I joined SMART.