May/June Graduation

[concerned_SMART]

Hi everyone,

I thought I would start a thread dedicated to anyone who is graduating in the May/June time frame and their saga associated with getting hired during these harsh times. I have been told by my SF that the hiring freeze is fully in place and that with furloughs being discussed, there isn't any word on whether they will be able to provide me an offer when I graduate. I told them that I was moving forward with applying to other jobs and he mentioned that as a good thing to continue doing.

I have emailed the SMART office on several occasions asking about the timeline for being released (if it comes to that) or how long I actually have to wait for an offer to be provided from the SF. Just like most people's experience with the SMART office, I have received no responses to any of my emails. (only one response and that was telling me to direct my question to another email address that did not respond)

I am frankly floored at how little communication is being provided to us about the payment delay, as well as the cuts and hiring freeze. Best of luck to everyone and I look forward to hearing everyone's experience with this and posting mine as things move forward.

[Guest]

Get a letter from your SF saying that they will be unable to hire you and they advise you to look for other jobs. If it's an HR person, even better.

[Guest071]

I'm graduating in May and so far, everything is smooth sailing for me. I think a lot of it depends on how many SMART scholars your SF has had. My SF has put through over 25 SMART scholars and has a methodical way of making sure we get hired, and I've been told that they hiring freezes don't affect SMART scholars. But as for a base that doesn't have a specific path to follow only for SMART scholars, I can see how the freeze could affect SMART because the students are being hired through the regular path. The freezes aren't supposed to affect SMART scholars because they are supposed to be treated differently, but I think some facilities just put them through like normal hires because they may not be aware, may not understand if their first, etc.

[Guest071]

Correction to the previous message: I think some facilities just put them through like normal hires because they may not be aware, may not understand if they have their first SMART scholar.

[Guest]

Correction to the previous message: I think some facilities just put them through like normal hires because they may not be aware, may not understand if they have their first SMART scholar.

Another possibility, they do not have the mechanism in place to hire SMART scholars under any route other than the "normal way".

The hiring authority that SMART claims does not seem to be DoD-wide.

[concerned_SMART]

Correction to the previous message: I think some facilities just put them through like normal hires because they may not be aware, may not understand if they have their first SMART scholar.

Another possibility, they do not have the mechanism in place to hire SMART scholars under any route other than the "normal way".

The hiring authority that SMART claims does not seem to be DoD-wide.

This is very true. My potential boss has told me that he is pestering the hiring mangers on a weekly basis to try and figure out what they are going to do and that they don't have any response for him yet. The SMART label definitely does not guarantee getting hired at all SF in the case of a continued hiring freeze (which I do not know how they will possibly avoid this).

[Guest22]

My SF has through the past, and this year, put SMART through despite the hiring freeze.

They know SMART people are in a different box and have some sort of process to obtain exceptions for hiring SMART scholars during a hiring freeze. I agree with other posters that your problem may be due to a lack of experience on the part of the SF.

[concerned_SMART]

It looks like my SF has finally gotten word from the hiring managers that they will be able to squeeze the SMART students through despite any hiring freeze that might be in order. He said that it ended up being a matter of working with more people outside of the SF as well so it looks like it will be based on individual SF as things move forward.

I just hope these furloughs don't kick in so I don't have to start at 80% of a starting salary. Hopefully I hear from the SF soon on starting some hiring paperwork so that I can have an offer on the table so I can at least go see the area and sign a lease, etc.

[concerned_SMART]

Does anyone know how furloughs might effect us?

I have not been able to get a straight answer from either the CA or the SF as to whether or not a furlough would be able to get us released from the requirement. If this program was meant to show us what it's like to work for the federal government, the lack of communication and details have really shown me what it would be like to begin my career there.

[fish_]

@concerned_SMART,

The furlough will affect you if it is in affect when they bring you on board. Furloughs are conected to sequestration; no sequestration, no furloughs.

[concerned_SMART]

@concerned_SMART,

The furlough will affect you if it is in affect when they bring you on board. Furloughs are conected to sequestration; no sequestration, no furloughs.

I understand that. I am wondering if there is any way that the furloughs would allow for a SF to acknowledge that aren't prepared to bring us on board in the capacity that we were promised. If that happens, then perhaps a release might be in order. I fully understand that furloughs would apply to SMART scholars, I just wonder if SMART or the SF would be willing to admit that bringing us on board in that capacity isn't right.

[Guest]

I understand that. I am wondering if there is any way that the furloughs would allow for a SF to acknowledge that aren't prepared to bring us on board in the capacity that we were promised. If that happens, then perhaps a release might be in order. I fully understand that furloughs would apply to SMART scholars, I just wonder if SMART or the SF would be willing to admit that bringing us on board in that capacity isn't right.

In my dealings with the SMART program, I would say a furlough at the SF would get you a "sorry, but such is government life" response, but absolutely not get you a release from the program.

The SMART Program goes out of their way to not include anything about the potential job offer in the handbook. Simply that the position will be considered a full-time employment within the federal government. If the offer is not what you expected from a pay perspective, the CA reminds you that SMART makes no promises with respect to pay level. A job offer is a job offer, and as long as it's a full-time equivalent (even if furloughed) I'd be shocked if the SMART Program granted you a release from your obligation.

[keyes113]

@concerned_SMART,

The furlough will affect you if it is in affect when they bring you on board. Furloughs are conected to sequestration; no sequestration, no furloughs.

I understand that. I am wondering if there is any way that the furloughs would allow for a SF to acknowledge that aren't prepared to bring us on board in the capacity that we were promised. If that happens, then perhaps a release might be in order. I fully understand that furloughs would apply to SMART scholars, I just wonder if SMART or the SF would be willing to admit that bringing us on board in that capacity isn't right.

I believe that if there is furlough they would be violating the full time employment part of the contract. Any case I think a lawyer would get you out of the contract if a furlough were to occur during your phase 2. They probably wouldn't even fight it once contacted by a lawyer.

[Guest18]

Unless fired due to a RIF, you are obligated to go to your SF and work. They can, by law, consider you full time with up to 22 forced days off in a calenar year (aka 80% pay for 22 weeks). Also, they don't have to hire you for up to 2 years before you get released. So if you don't get an offer this June they are allowed to require you to work next year even if you have another job. I am in phase 2 and I was basically given a tough luck response. But, SMART rarely holds anyone accountable besides tough words, so I doubt they would fight you if you tried to lawyer up or leave.

[concerned_SMART]

Unless fired due to a RIF, you are obligated to go to your SF and work. They can, by law, consider you full time with up to 22 forced days off in a calenar year (aka 80% pay for 22 weeks). Also, they don't have to hire you for up to 2 years before you get released. So if you don't get an offer this June they are allowed to require you to work next year even if you have another job. I am in phase 2 and I was basically given a tough luck response. But, SMART rarely holds anyone accountable besides tough words, so I doubt they would fight you if you tried to lawyer up or leave.

2 years? Where does anything say they can defer the employment phase from their end? If they don't provide a job offer, there's nothing to accept. If they go more than 30 days after graduation without offering something and stop support payments, I don't think they can just add a "at any point in the next 2 years we can cash in what we passed on before" clause that isn't written anywhere. Definitely would cause some lawyers to be involved and I don't see how they could win in that case.

[Guest18]

Read the handbook. Unless it changed, it use to say (I believe in the Mobility Clause) that they could change your SF or delay employment for up to 2 years before releasing you. Again, I've met a few people released and I've never heard of anyone being charged for pay back, so you are probably safe. The whole point of this clause is incase RIF happened and they closed your base, if they offered you other employment with in 2 years you were obligated to take it.

[Guest18]

You are probably correct. I just read the 2012 handbook and could not find it in there any longer.

[superskbman]

I'm graduating in May, I contacted my POC at my SF today about been hired in May and this was my POC's response

At this time we're in a complete hiring freeze, to include those in the SMART program, so we're waiting on further guidance before proceeding with bringing you on board permanently after you graduate. I don't think it'll be an issue, but right now it's a waiting game.

Kind of disconcerting... but I feel like now its too late to even begin searching for a job. And when I interview, what am I supposed to say? "Yea I want the job, but I can only accept it in the chance that my government contract fails...?"

[concerned_SMART]

I'm graduating in May, I contacted my POC at my SF today about been hired in May and this was my POC's response

At this time we're in a complete hiring freeze, to include those in the SMART program, so we're waiting on further guidance before proceeding with bringing you on board permanently after you graduate. I don't think it'll be an issue, but right now it's a waiting game.

Kind of disconcerting... but I feel like now its too late to even begin searching for a job. And when I interview, what am I supposed to say? "Yea I want the job, but I can only accept it in the chance that my government contract fails...?"

You're in the same boat as me. My SF seems to think that they will be able to offer me something even if they are in a furlough (even worse). There's just no communication from the SPO to know what's going on at all. It's really frustrating.

[concerned_SMART]

Has anyone at all that's graduating in May/June began any process yet? I was told by my SF that I would hear something very soon and that was 2 weeks ago. Just wondering if anyone has heard anything positive or negative.

[Guest071]

My POC at my SF contacted us and had us send our resumes and transcripts in for the process to begin, but the POC said not to expect to hear anything before late April/Early May. That's about the only thing I've done. But then again, the hiring freeze is not affecting the SMART scholars at my SF. (Which I think should be the case at any SF, but maybe there are differences in how the SFs handle the SMART program's authority to hire).

[Guest]

My POC at my SF contacted us and had us send our resumes and transcripts in for the process to begin, but the POC said not to expect to hear anything before late April/Early May. That's about the only thing I've done. But then again, the hiring freeze is not affecting the SMART scholars at my SF. (Which I think should be the case at any SF, but maybe there are differences in how the SFs handle the SMART program's authority to hire).

Did you know that some SFs have doubled the length of the SMART service commitment at the time of hire?

Sound unfair? Does that sound like something you'd expect from a program as structured as SMART? I'll bet you thought the DoD has across-the-board rules it follows, right?

Maybe some time you will see that there are actually employees within the DoD trying their best to shrink the payroll of the DoD in some hopes they will not personally be furloughed. There's a tendency to look after your own when cuts loom. As a SMART student, you are not "one of their own" just yet. You're still a contractor trying to get their foot in the door.

[ReplyToGuest]

Did you know that some SFs have doubled the length of the SMART service commitment at the time of hire?

Sound unfair? Does that sound like something you'd expect from a program as structured as SMART? I'll bet you thought the DoD has across-the-board rules it follows, right?

Maybe some time you will see that there are actually employees within the DoD trying their best to shrink the payroll of the DoD in some hopes they will not personally be furloughed. There's a tendency to look after your own when cuts loom. As a SMART student, you are not "one of their own" just yet. You're still a contractor trying to get their foot in the door.

Despite how ambiguous the SPO has been during this time, one thing that they have made absolutely clear in the Handbook is that your service commitment to you SF (if/when they hire you) is commensurate to your award length plus any penalties for any requested extensions in award length. I can't disagree with the third paragraph 'Guest' posted, but a SF cannot engage in conscription beyond what you've agreed to. Guest's post recklessly spreading false information is insulting to the many already worried SMART Scholars during this troubled time.

[Guest]

Despite how ambiguous the SPO has been during this time, one thing that they have made absolutely clear in the Handbook is that your service commitment to you SF (if/when they hire you) is commensurate to your award length plus any penalties for any requested extensions in award length. I can't disagree with the third paragraph 'Guest' posted, but a SF cannot engage in conscription beyond what you've agreed to. Guest's post recklessly spreading false information is insulting to the many already worried SMART Scholars during this troubled time.

Actually, they have. Whether or not they can is arguable. But don't assume it's recklessly spreading false information. It's the honest truth.

Search the recipients forums and you'll find past examples. For example, Army Corp of Engineers has, in the past, been very ruthless in their extension of service commitment requirements.

If you want to get angry with someone who is being "insulting", you're talking to the wrong people...

[Kaelinth]

My POC at my SF contacted us and had us send our resumes and transcripts in for the process to begin, but the POC said not to expect to hear anything before late April/Early May. That's about the only thing I've done. But then again, the hiring freeze is not affecting the SMART scholars at my SF. (Which I think should be the case at any SF, but maybe there are differences in how the SFs handle the SMART program's authority to hire).

What SF are you at? My HR person is saying they can't do anything with hiring at the moment, but I'm trying to find out which SFs are saying the opposite, so maybe she can figure out what's going on.