Internship Support Payments

[Guest]

I haven't been paid yet.

[WaitingIsFun]

I have reached out to my congressional representative. I also reached out to the facilities that interviewed me (I am still only an applicant) and the general response was that they would not provide any additional support in light of the changes made by ASEE. Their position was that the scholarship awardee should be fully supported by ASEE.

If this change is official I will most likely decline the scholarship offer (if awarded) as it would be more beneficial for me to work (at my current salary), pay my own tuition, and then get a job anywhere I choose upon graduation (making more money). I may be in a unique situation with a wife and daughter to support while currently having a decent paying job but I was hoping this program would be my foot in the door for government work.

[xkcd13]

Keep in mind that this change to the internship support payments does not hurt everyone. If someone lives within 50 miles of their SF then they were not going to get the $1200/mo. in the first place. So for some (EDIT: probably less than half of us) the change in support payments will be an improvement from $0 to $600/mo.

So, some people may not be on board if we do organize.

[Aaaaas]

Keep in mind that that $600 per week is only for this summer. You're back to nothing next year. Most importantly, a message should be sent to the SMART program that they can't change an agreement whenever they feel like it. They should be held to the same standard that we are.

[Guest1]

Keep in mind that this change to the internship support payments does not hurt everyone. If someone lives within 50 miles of their SF then they were not going to get the $1200/mo. in the first place. So for some (probably about half of us) the change in support payments will be an improvement from $0 to $600/mo.

So, some people may not be on board if we do organize.

To those students who are pleased with the change, I think they are exactly the type of employee the SMART program is meant to attract. I think they will enjoy their employment and move to a long and happy career with the government.

To those students who are ambivalent, I would ask them if they'd be content with accepting ALL changes that could come to the SMART Program at a future date. I would ask if they're ready to finish up an arduous school process and be told that they need to be hired into a student internship, rather than an actual position, because the paperwork to get them into the internship is easier to manage.

If they're still happy, then I guess this program is a success for them. If the prospect of having your career altered by being forced into a student internship upon graduation scares you, then you might want to start thinking about getting out now, rather than later, and be grateful this sudden change to the scholarship terms was enough to wake you out of the lull the SMART program puts you in.

[Notfunny]

Keep in mind that this change to the internship support payments does not hurt everyone. If someone lives within 50 miles of their SF then they were not going to get the $1200/mo. in the first place. So for some (probably about half of us) the change in support payments will be an improvement from $0 to $600/mo.

So, some people may not be on board if we do organize.

This is why I feel like the requirements to get the internship support payments should have been stricter to begin with. 50 miles isn't that far so increasing the distance could have saved them money by not having to give as many scholars the payments instead of just cutting it in half and then completely. :/ For people like me, who don't have the option to drive to their SF thanks to an ocean being in the way, this is going to be hard. (Due to the cost of the plane ticket and rental car that CONUS could have the option of not spending)

I'm still grateful for this scholarship and would not have changed anything I have done thus far. It would have been nice to know this more that 2 months before I'll be heading to my internship so I could have saved up money specifically for this.

[tdavis4]

So if half of us are within 50 miles then why do all of us get 600 instead of half of us getting our 1200 this year?

[guesta]

So if half of us are within 50 miles then why do all of us get 600 instead of half of us getting our 1200 this year?

Yeah, that makes no sense at all. Benefiting half of us and screwing the other half... unless they are trying to turn us against each other! Oh that's evil....

[Fiscal Interest]

It doesn't really make sense from a fiscal perspective to say that they are taking the funding away from some that potentially legitimately need it (living too far away and making a net loss of money even though they are "working" during the summer) and giving it to those within the 50 mile distance when they might stay at their same academic residence and not need the extra money.

It would make much more sense to either:

1.) Grandfather in those originally in the program under their original contracts because people have been planning on that money to come in because that's what they signed on to (much like how Social Security is future promises for current payees)

2.) Remove the funding given to those within the 50 mile distance and give that $600 to the people further away for two years in a row, trying to eliminate as much loss of promise of future funding for participants

3.) Create a reimbursement-based system of costs incurred using some sort of realistic limits and takes in to account case-by-case basis information of one participant and the costs needed for them to go through an internship versus another participant.

[tdavis4]

Can we get a count of people who have send a letter of complaint to SMART or congress?

[Guest]

3.) Create a reimbursement-based system of costs incurred using some sort of realistic limits and takes in to account case-by-case basis information of one participant and the costs needed for them to go through an internship versus another participant.

There's a system for this in place already in the gov't. Per Diem. Every gov't employee who goes on TDY gets Per Diem and travel reimbursements. They could buy all our plane tickets or pay $0.51/mile, reimburse for car rental and lodging, etc... Just like they treat people who are invited to projects on invitational orders. No new system needed.

Let's say you are posted in Vicksburg, MS and are traveling from LA and will be there for 12 weeks. $750 round trip plane ticket and $750/mo x 3 = $2250 for car rental or 1800x2=3600 mile round trip for driving at $1836, 12x7 lodging at $77/day = $6468, 12x7 at $46/day M&IE $3864

Driving $12168 = $1014/wk (excludes gas)
Flying $13332 = $ 1111/wk (excludes gas)

So for an internship at one of the cheapest places to live in the country...we get ...oh look...right about $1200/wk...weird

So, why don't we just go to the standard gov't travel. That way those who live close won't get anything, those who go somewhere "cheap" won't get too much extra pay, and those who go to Honolulu will get the amount they need. Why are we any different than other Gov't travel parties?

[Guest]

Can we get a count of people who have send a letter of complaint to SMART or congress?

1

CA, Pres, Congress, Senate, CNN, and ABC

[tdavis]

Can we get a count of people who have send a letter of complaint to SMART or congress?

1

CA, Pres, Congress, Senate, CNN, and ABC

2
I sent one to SMART

[xkcd13]

So if half of us are within 50 miles then why do all of us get 600 instead of half of us getting our 1200 this year?

Yeah, that makes no sense at all. Benefiting half of us and screwing the other half... unless they are trying to turn us against each other! Oh that's evil....

Okay, probably less than half...

All I'm saying is that the change benefits some people.

[MertGur]

Has anyone received a reply from SMART yet?

[Guest2]

Has anyone received a reply from SMART yet?

I received a reply from my CA who said the policy was well thought out, was not going to change, and that the decision was made several levels above the SPO. She offered to put me in contact with someone on the decision making level. I think I am going to hold off on that, though, until I receive legal advise. On that note, I'm holding my letters of complaint until then as well.

[Guest]

I received a reply from my CA who said the policy was well thought out, was not going to change, and that the decision was made several levels above the SPO. She offered to put me in contact with someone on the decision making level. I think I am going to hold off on that, though, until I receive legal advise. On that note, I'm holding my letters of complaint until then as well.

That may be lip service from the CA, or just repeating the "party line" on the matter. I think you are correct to hold off further pending legal advise. That's what I'm doing too.

I would recommend to everyone to contact their CA (for nothing else than verification that the email is legit) at least once, and in a calm, respectful manner. It won't look good if this goes the legal route and you never even contacted your CA.

Silence could be viewed as acceptance of your new contract terms in this case.

[Guest]

I received a reply from my CA who said the policy was well thought out, was not going to change, and that the decision was made several levels above the SPO. She offered to put me in contact with someone on the decision making level. I think I am going to hold off on that, though, until I receive legal advise. On that note, I'm holding my letters of complaint until then as well.

Show me one thing that has been "well thought out" about the events of the last week: The still missing monthly stipend (that they said is NOT a funding issue) or the missing internship stipend (that they say apparently IS a funding issue)?

[Guest1]

Has anyone received a reply from SMART yet?

I received a reply from my CA who said the policy was well thought out, was not going to change, and that the decision was made several levels above the SPO. She offered to put me in contact with someone on the decision making level. I think I am going to hold off on that, though, until I receive legal advise. On that note, I'm holding my letters of complaint until then as well.

Good idea. But even if you have no legal basis, you are still authorized to write your congressman about something you feel is unfair. I wrote my congressman's office about the SMART program and instead of focusing on what is legal/illegal, they were willing to send in the inquiry simply due to them feeling the SMART program was being abused by the DoD.

You will want to get the contact info from your CA for your complaint's benefit. Your senator's letter should be addressed to government employees at decision making levels if you hope to have the maximum effect. Addressing it to your CA or SMART Program Management is a little less effective, being as they're all contractors and get to play the "I don't make the decisions" card (classic bureaucratic cop-out).

[e3sentry]

To be fair, the $1200/week payments was a little ridiculous.

Well as long as we're being "fair" a lot of people would say that the stipend that we receive under normal conditions is a little ridiculous, when compared to the average scholarship. However, the SMART program is not supposed to be an average scholarship for average students.

I am definitely not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the combination of a missed stipend payment along with this huge reduction in internship support really makes me nervous. I never expected to have to deal with things like this when I was awarded the scholarship.

I know we're being told the late payment is due to administrative issues, but I would think that they could have cleared this up a little faster. A lot of people depend on those payments, and there's no reason that they shouldn't. SMART scholars work very hard to maintain their grades and to get the education that they need to be of use to their respective SF's. I see this as a very serious job, and for people to act as if a missed "paycheck" for that job is just a trivial oversight is a little frustrating.

Although I'm not looking at the paperwork right now, I don't remember the agreement mentioning how much the internship payment would be. I got that information verbally from my SF and CA. However, even if it isn't in the contract, I don't believe that's a good reason to reduce the payment. Frankly, I think it's a little mean-spirited to cut the payment two months before people have to report for their internships, and then act like it's no big deal because it's not in the contract. I would expect a little more integrity from SMART.

Bottom line: if they needed to cut internship payments, a much better way to do it would be to allow the 2011 recipients to receive the $1200/week, whether their internship is in 2012, 2013, or beyond. Then simply drop the internship support payments for 2012 recipients, who won't miss it because it was never offered. Just my opinion.

[Guest]

To be fair, the $1200/week payments was a little ridiculous.

Well as long as we're being "fair" a lot of people would say that the stipend that we receive under normal conditions is a little ridiculous, when compared to the average scholarship. However, the SMART program is not supposed to be an average scholarship for average students.

.....

I think it is important to remember that one of the requirements of SMART is that as a participant you are NOT ALLOWED to earn a living. You are required to depend on the SMART payment and you were only allowed to earn "supplemental" income.

In my own personal experience, I had to quit my job to order to accept the SMART scholarship. I have a family and mortgage that depends on the promises made by SMART.

[Guest2508]

To be fair, the $1200/week payments was a little ridiculous.

Well as long as we're being "fair" a lot of people would say that the stipend that we receive under normal conditions is a little ridiculous, when compared to the average scholarship. However, the SMART program is not supposed to be an average scholarship for average students.

.....

I think it is important to remember that one of the requirements of SMART is that as a participant you are NOT ALLOWED to earn a living. You are required to depend on the SMART payment and you were only allowed to earn "supplemental" income.

In my own personal experience, I had to quit my job to order to accept the SMART scholarship. I have a family and mortgage that depends on the promises made by SMART.

Second that.

So when are they going to pay us?....

I had a fully funded position for school but this was supposed to be a way to get into defense related research.

Now what?

[RPI CSE]

I think it is important to remember that one of the requirements of SMART is that as a participant you are NOT ALLOWED to earn a living. You are required to depend on the SMART payment and you were only allowed to earn "supplemental" income.

In my own personal experience, I had to quit my job to order to accept the SMART scholarship. I have a family and mortgage that depends on the promises made by SMART.

Question on that bit, I know we are allowed to work without much restriction over winter break, but are we allowed to do the same thing during the summer? Paying for a car, two apartments and moving and all other expenses is going to be hard enough this summer, let alone next summer...

[Guest2]

I spoke with my lawyer today.

She thinks that any participant should have the right to leave the program without repayment of any funds, as the terms of the agreement were modified on a significant level (nearly 30% of the funding for me)

She doubts that any personal attempt to receive more funds from SMART will be successful - as any compromise they make would have to be an across the board change. One such scenario may be if many recipients threatened to leave, they might agree to increase the funding for everyone.

She thinks it would be beneficial to contact representatives.

Also, it's important to note that you don't want to re-accept the new terms of the agreement accidentally. For example, if you send in your paperwork for the internship on April 15th, include a disclaimer stating you have not yet agreed to the new terms of the agreement if you have not decided by that point.

Once you begin your internship and accept the $600/month payments, that would constitute acceptance of the new agreement.

It's likely that SMART is holding out the March (and maybe future) stipend payments so as to not pay those who intend to leave the program. She thinks they should pay the March payment as the notice of change was sent AFTER the payment date. However, in my opinion, if they claim 'administrative' issues to get out of it...there might not be much you can do to get your March payment if you choose to decline the new agreement.

I'm going to attempt to contact someone at SMART to talk to in order to mention all my concerns.

At this point, the decision to make is whether or not to try to decline the scholarship and walk away with what you have, or still accept it with the new terms. For me that decision will be made based on whether or not the SF will provide any living expenses. For some it may be easier as the scholarship limit removal may help. For me however, I've already declined all my scholarships and it's passed the deadlines for any Fall 2012/Spring 2013 scholarships...so I'm not getting any help there.

If we want to attempt to get SMART to compromise and provide more funds than they offer - the idea would be to gather a large group of people willing to leave the program - unless they increase the funding. That would probably be the only chance. They aren't going to do it on an individual basis.

[Guest1]

Good information, Guest2. My guess is this is the perfect time to "test the mettle" of your SF. If you tell SMART your done unless you get living expenses paid for and that info gets passed to the SF and the SF declines, my guess is you would have never wanted to work for them anyway, and they weren't planning on sacrificing much of their time to get you onboard anyway. Best to walk away now.