by gadfly » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:12 am
This is a re-post from a reply I made in the other forum today.
The rant you may want to skip since you are already committed, but you can skip down to the end to read some of my tips to follow before you get on-boarded.
Good luck and I hope my experiences help you in some way.
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I am a current SMART scholar at an Air Force Base in California (expensive part of California), and to quickly answers the title. No I am not happy with the program whatsoever.
The previous poster hit everything right on the head. SMART used bait and switch tactics to get you locked in to ridiculous terms. Initially (maybe the first 3 years groups) got reasonable financial terms. After that... the pay you can expect to receive is SIGNIFICANTLY less than what you get as an intern at any engineering firm.
I'll being with a frustration rant below :).
If you don't want to read my frustration then head on down to towards the end, --- I list the few benefits of working for the Government and I give some tips to those of you who have already committed themselves to the SMART program.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My rant begins here!
First, some scholars with some degrees that are not in high may find this program acceptable. If you are in a high demand career field like any of the engineering fields or computer science you will find the initial pay (upon graduation) laughable. At my facility (and at the majority of all Air Force and Army facilities) with a bachelors degree you will be offered a GS/GG - 7 position upon graduation. This is about 43,000 a year. Every year they will increase your pay by 2 pay bands until you reach level 11, so a year after being on-boarded you will receive a GS-9 (about 52k), then a year later you will be a GS-11 (64K). Keep in mind a GS-11 making 64K is not so bad as a new graduate coming out of college, as long as you live in a low cost of living area like in Indiana, Florida or Texas, but these prices are for one of the cities in California with the highest cost of living. If you are in one of the lower cost of living areas you will make at least 10% less than what I just listed. In my situation I had an abundance of experience directly related to career field and job, and I still had to negotiate hard to come on board with as a GS-9.
Your classmates, at least the ones on par with your intelligence level, will all receive significantly higher paying jobs in lower cost of living areas. You will also be left to fend for yourself for 6-9 months after graduation without receiving a SMART stipend as your facility attempts to open up a spot for you (even though they have known you will be coming for several years). After talking to several other SMART scholars, I prepared myself for the 7 months of no income. I applied for jobs in the private sector 2-3 months before graduation. I applied for 7 jobs, and received 5 offers. The lowest offer I received was for 66K, the highest paying offer I received was for 77K (without negotiating). I took the lowest paying job because it was with a company that I knew could handle my departure 7 months later, and it was in a non-defense industry (I didn't want to burn any bridges in the industry I was going to work in). Now keep in mind these Offer's are all in an area that has a relatively low cost of living index. I was paying $750.00 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a nice area... compared to what I am paying now $1,500 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a reasonable area. So in summary if I would had rejected the SMART scholarship I would be making more money and paying significantly less in rent. Instead with the SMART program I am making significantly less than my market value and paying significantly more in rent. You are all SMART... you come to your own conclusion here.
Next, lets get on to the actual work. The work in MOST Government facilities is NOT Technical. The job description might sound super cool, but in reality, you will be doing very little if any technical work. The work you do on the job has no correlation with what you get paid. If you are an ALL STAR at your job and the best engineer on the planet or the best program manager on the planet it does not matter in the DoD. You will get paid the same amount as the average newly minted arts/music/business major.
80% of the SMART Scholars at my facility(including myself) have won quarterly or annual awards for our respected civilian categories. What do you get for these awards, a free dinner if your lucky, but you will have to pay for your spouses dinner if you want her to attend the ceremony. Like the other poster said above, the skills you learn in Government will not be transferable to a technical position in industry. If you want to be an engineer when you leave Government you will have to keep your skills well oiled at home doing your own simulations and modeling.
Finally, if you attempt to move jobs/facilities/agencies while your still in your commitment phase, your SMART agency liaison will most likely intercede and thwart your attempts. The most recent DTM states only that you must fulfill your commitment within the Department of Defense, it does not mandate that you fulfill your commitment at your sponsoring facility or your sponsoring agency, but keep mind your agencies SMART liaison most likely resides within your agencies personnel center and will keep track of any DoD applications you put out, and will do what they can to keep you where you are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if your still reading this I will move on to some of the positive aspects of working for the DoD and taking the SMART scholarship.
1. SMART Stipend and tuition payment is AWESOME! But, you will have to deal with being paid like an intern for at least the next 3 years after graduation before you have a chance of being paid like a real engineer or scientist.
2. Job security in the Government is great, if you don't want to do anything... don't. Just sit at your desk and look at Facebook all day. It is immensely hard for the Government to get rid of you.
3. Depending on your career field, you may be able to get the Government to pay for your Master's degree. If you are in acquisitions they will pay for up to $50K of your Master's degree with no added commitment. This program may be gone by the time most of you come on board though.
4. The skills you learn in Government may be beneficial to companies who do the majority of their business with the government. This means that if you are an engineer and pursue an MBA while fulfilling your commitment, you might have a decent chance of getting a project/program management type position at a defense contractor. But if you want to do technical work and build stuff, those same defense contractors will trash your resume if you are applying to any technical type of job.
5. ..... thats all the benefits I can think of right now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My tips for those of you who have already committed yourself:
1. If you are able to .. insist that you work in a Research Lab, a base where there is a lot of testing done, an operations base, the intelligence sector (good luck) or the Navy (I haven't heard as many negative stories about them as I have heard from the other agencies). Outside of those facilities you will not be working on anything technical and you won't feel like you are actually helping our nation directly.
2.Find the highest paying job you can find after graduation and work there until the Government forces you to quit. This will allow you some leverage when dealing with manpower/ HR at the beginning. Save some pay stubs and show them what you are making currently, they will attempt to match it. If I had known this before, then I would have most likely been a little more content financially.
3. Get an internship for 16 hours a week while your in school doing some REAL engineering work. This may be the only chance you ever get to apply the knowledge you gained in school to the real world. I worked at a defense contractor for the maximum allowable time dictated by the SMART program. I was challenged and felt intellectually satisfied working on prototype systems at the defense contractor.
4. Save EVERYTHING you can, you'll need every last penny to maintain your current style of living. Then when it is all gone prepare to live in the hood or go into heavy debt until you find a new job.
--------------------------------------
My recommendation:
If I had to do it all over again, I would NOT, I REPEAT I WOULD NOT take the SMART scholarship. The scholarship delays your graduation, retards your earning potential, and destroy's any technical ability you may have had.
The SMART program should be looking for the scientist or engineers who barely squeek by college, not the students who are highly motivated and brilliant.
I really feel that this program does a disservice to our nation. It takes the most patriotic and brightest young people our nation has to offer, and it turns the majority of them into frustrated, negative, and uninspired individuals.
This is a re-post from a reply I made in the other forum today.
The rant you may want to skip since you are already committed, but you can skip down to the end to read some of my tips to follow before you get on-boarded.
Good luck and I hope my experiences help you in some way.
---------------------------------------------------
I am a current SMART scholar at an Air Force Base in California (expensive part of California), and to quickly answers the title. No I am not happy with the program whatsoever.
The previous poster hit everything right on the head. SMART used bait and switch tactics to get you locked in to ridiculous terms. Initially (maybe the first 3 years groups) got reasonable financial terms. After that... the pay you can expect to receive is SIGNIFICANTLY less than what you get as an intern at any engineering firm.
I'll being with a frustration rant below :).
If you don't want to read my frustration then head on down to towards the end, --- I list the few benefits of working for the Government and I give some tips to those of you who have already committed themselves to the SMART program.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My rant begins here!
First, some scholars with some degrees that are not in high may find this program acceptable. If you are in a high demand career field like any of the engineering fields or computer science you will find the initial pay (upon graduation) laughable. At my facility (and at the majority of all Air Force and Army facilities) with a bachelors degree you will be offered a GS/GG - 7 position upon graduation. This is about 43,000 a year. Every year they will increase your pay by 2 pay bands until you reach level 11, so a year after being on-boarded you will receive a GS-9 (about 52k), then a year later you will be a GS-11 (64K). Keep in mind a GS-11 making 64K is not so bad as a new graduate coming out of college, as long as you live in a low cost of living area like in Indiana, Florida or Texas, but these prices are for one of the cities in California with the highest cost of living. If you are in one of the lower cost of living areas you will make at least 10% less than what I just listed. In my situation I had an abundance of experience directly related to career field and job, and I still had to negotiate hard to come on board with as a GS-9.
Your classmates, at least the ones on par with your intelligence level, will all receive significantly higher paying jobs in lower cost of living areas. You will also be left to fend for yourself for 6-9 months after graduation without receiving a SMART stipend as your facility attempts to open up a spot for you (even though they have known you will be coming for several years). After talking to several other SMART scholars, I prepared myself for the 7 months of no income. I applied for jobs in the private sector 2-3 months before graduation. I applied for 7 jobs, and received 5 offers. The lowest offer I received was for 66K, the highest paying offer I received was for 77K (without negotiating). I took the lowest paying job because it was with a company that I knew could handle my departure 7 months later, and it was in a non-defense industry (I didn't want to burn any bridges in the industry I was going to work in). Now keep in mind these Offer's are all in an area that has a relatively low cost of living index. I was paying $750.00 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a nice area... compared to what I am paying now $1,500 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a reasonable area. So in summary if I would had rejected the SMART scholarship I would be making more money and paying significantly less in rent. Instead with the SMART program I am making significantly less than my market value and paying significantly more in rent. You are all SMART... you come to your own conclusion here.
Next, lets get on to the actual work. The work in MOST Government facilities is NOT Technical. The job description might sound super cool, but in reality, you will be doing very little if any technical work. The work you do on the job has no correlation with what you get paid. If you are an ALL STAR at your job and the best engineer on the planet or the best program manager on the planet it does not matter in the DoD. You will get paid the same amount as the average newly minted arts/music/business major.
80% of the SMART Scholars at my facility(including myself) have won quarterly or annual awards for our respected civilian categories. What do you get for these awards, a free dinner if your lucky, but you will have to pay for your spouses dinner if you want her to attend the ceremony. Like the other poster said above, the skills you learn in Government will not be transferable to a technical position in industry. If you want to be an engineer when you leave Government you will have to keep your skills well oiled at home doing your own simulations and modeling.
Finally, if you attempt to move jobs/facilities/agencies while your still in your commitment phase, your SMART agency liaison will most likely intercede and thwart your attempts. The most recent DTM states only that you must fulfill your commitment within the Department of Defense, it does not mandate that you fulfill your commitment at your sponsoring facility or your sponsoring agency, but keep mind your agencies SMART liaison most likely resides within your agencies personnel center and will keep track of any DoD applications you put out, and will do what they can to keep you where you are.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if your still reading this I will move on to some of the positive aspects of working for the DoD and taking the SMART scholarship.
1. SMART Stipend and tuition payment is AWESOME! But, you will have to deal with being paid like an intern for at least the next 3 years after graduation before you have a chance of being paid like a real engineer or scientist.
2. Job security in the Government is great, if you don't want to do anything... don't. Just sit at your desk and look at Facebook all day. It is immensely hard for the Government to get rid of you.
3. Depending on your career field, you may be able to get the Government to pay for your Master's degree. If you are in acquisitions they will pay for up to $50K of your Master's degree with no added commitment. This program may be gone by the time most of you come on board though.
4. The skills you learn in Government may be beneficial to companies who do the majority of their business with the government. This means that if you are an engineer and pursue an MBA while fulfilling your commitment, you might have a decent chance of getting a project/program management type position at a defense contractor. But if you want to do technical work and build stuff, those same defense contractors will trash your resume if you are applying to any technical type of job.
5. ..... thats all the benefits I can think of right now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My tips for those of you who have already committed yourself:
1. If you are able to .. insist that you work in a Research Lab, a base where there is a lot of testing done, an operations base, the intelligence sector (good luck) or the Navy (I haven't heard as many negative stories about them as I have heard from the other agencies). Outside of those facilities you will not be working on anything technical and you won't feel like you are actually helping our nation directly.
2.Find the highest paying job you can find after graduation and work there until the Government forces you to quit. This will allow you some leverage when dealing with manpower/ HR at the beginning. Save some pay stubs and show them what you are making currently, they will attempt to match it. If I had known this before, then I would have most likely been a little more content financially.
3. Get an internship for 16 hours a week while your in school doing some REAL engineering work. This may be the only chance you ever get to apply the knowledge you gained in school to the real world. I worked at a defense contractor for the maximum allowable time dictated by the SMART program. I was challenged and felt intellectually satisfied working on prototype systems at the defense contractor.
4. Save EVERYTHING you can, you'll need every last penny to maintain your current style of living. Then when it is all gone prepare to live in the hood or go into heavy debt until you find a new job.
--------------------------------------
My recommendation:
If I had to do it all over again, I would NOT, I REPEAT I WOULD NOT take the SMART scholarship. The scholarship delays your graduation, retards your earning potential, and destroy's any technical ability you may have had.
The SMART program should be looking for the scientist or engineers who barely squeek by college, not the students who are highly motivated and brilliant.
I really feel that this program does a disservice to our nation. It takes the most patriotic and brightest young people our nation has to offer, and it turns the majority of them into frustrated, negative, and uninspired individuals.