The Unofficial SMART Scholarship Forum

[quote="Guest"]This is very SF dependent. I'm a PhD at a lab demo SF. I discussed salary and offer a lot with my supervisor during my internships and demonstrated my value.[/quote]

Did the same. Got told that my supervisor/mentor spoke out of turn, and the SF was not obligated in any way to materialize what he had told me.

This is very SF dependent. I'm a PhD at a lab demo SF. I discussed salary and offer a lot with my supervisor during my internships and demonstrated my value. I started 2 years ago at a bit less than GS 13-2 equivalent. The next year I went to almost GS 13-3 equivalent, and this year 13-4 equivalent on the dot. I expect in 2 more years I will have exceeded the 14-1 equivalent, even if I don't go for a promotion.

It can be done. It really depends on the SF and you. Show what you can do and why they want to keep you. It doesn't matter much that you have to work there for a couple of years, you have to show them that they want you for 30 years and if they don't take care of you, you'll high-tail it after your commitment for some other job that will take care of you better. But, don't take it too far. I have heard a story of one student who made it clear that they would leave after the commitment. They were fairly miserable for the duration.

[quote="FrustSmar"]Something else to keep in mind is that research positions in the GS systems have a slightly different OPM mandated starting salary. So those with a Masters starting in a research position should be at least a GS-11 and a PhD in a research position a GS-12. The Lab Demos do seem to better and certainly are more flexible. I believe the Air Force and Army Lab Demos start PhDs out at least at the equivalent to GS-12 (not sure where the Navy falls).[/quote]


BUT, it's up to the service if you're actually in a research position.


If they can get you at a GS-9, why would they go through the effort of justifying you're a researcher to get you a GS-11 and cause the hiring specialist to miss quality facebook time when, in the end, they know you have to accept whatever they offer?

Something else to keep in mind is that research positions in the GS systems have a slightly different OPM mandated starting salary. So those with a Masters starting in a research position should be at least a GS-11 and a PhD in a research position a GS-12. The Lab Demos do seem to better and certainly are more flexible. I believe the Air Force and Army Lab Demos start PhDs out at least at the equivalent to GS-12 (not sure where the Navy falls).

Unfortunately, as others have said, all SMART Scholars likely have little room to negotiate, but rule #1 after you get any job offer -- ask for MORE (money, time off, relocation expenses, etc). Yes, the gov't generally has fewer knobs to turn than a private company, but the worst thing they can do is say no. You've got nothing to lose...just be reasonable. In every job I've had (both private and public), except my 1st job, I've always ended up with more than what was originally offered...because I asked!

On a side note, for any prospective SMART student or those looking to transfer, I recommend trying to get with a SF using the Lab Demo salary system. I'm headed to AFRL for Phase 2 this summer and they use it. The Lab Demo system replaces the GS system for setting salaries, and is actually based on work output, rather than how long you've kept your seat warm. There are only 4 large pay bands and, generally, the supervisor has some ability to offer a more competitive salary, if it's warranted. I'm a PhD EE and feel that the salary I've negotiated is actually not far off from private industry (of course, if I wanted to live in Silicon Valley or the Bay Area, I'd probably make a lot more, but then I'd also be paying big $$$ for everything...no thanks).

For more info on Lab Demo see: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=8080

Quite frankly, I don't know why all gov't facilities, especially labs, don't use this system. In my opinion, the only thing the GS system promotes is mediocrity. "Hey, come work here, do nothing, and still get an annual raise! Plus, we'll likely never fire you!"

Well, thank you for your good luck wishes then, apparently I am going to need them.

I can't speak for PhD's, but at my SF a BS would start off at a GS-7. If you were an EE, you would go up to a GS-9 in 6 months, but CS majors (like myself) had to wait a year for the GS-9 increase. Don't ask me why, but the Air Force has a total hard-on for EE's (no offence, I have some great friends who are engineers). It makes even less sense when you realize that EE's are basically used for software anyway. But that's another rant.

A couple things to keep in mind:

1. You will have almost no negotiating ability. Some people, in rare instances, have been able to get a bump up to the next step or even a grade. Do not count on that.

2. There's nothing that holds them to the 7,9,11,12 plan. I've heard some horror stories, believe me. How would you like to be a GS-7 for 2 years? You wouldn't be the first SMART to do it.

[quote="guestagain"]Just following along. I am hoping to start at the equivalent pay grade as other entry level PhDs, so I was curious as to how everyone else has fared. I think I'm the only SMART PhD at my SF.

I do know for BS SMART students at my SF they start at GS7, but move up to 9, 11, then 12 once a year in grade. So 3 years you are at a 12.[/quote]

I was the first SMART PhD at my SF. OPM required them to offer me at least a GS-11, Step 1. Which, coincidentally, is what they offered me (nothing like being in a required service commitment to reduce your negotiating power!).

The official offer had no increase to a GS-12 after a year, which is pretty standard. Again, when you have no negotiating power, they will take you for as little as you are worth. Prior to accepting the SMART Scholarship, my mentor (not a hiring authority) told me the offer would be a GS-11/12/13 on a 2 year increase. The hiring official later reported that's illegal (GS-13 positions must be competed for, rather than assigned).

GS-11 Step 1 is about 50% of the market rate for a PhD Electrical Engineer. It would have actually [b]saved[/b] me money to pay back the commitment and go get a job paying the market rate over the course of my service commitment.

Good luck in your "negotiations" with the SF.

Just following along. I am hoping to start at the equivalent pay grade as other entry level PhDs, so I was curious as to how everyone else has fared. I think I'm the only SMART PhD at my SF.

I do know for BS SMART students at my SF they start at GS7, but move up to 9, 11, then 12 once a year in grade. So 3 years you are at a 12.

I will also be starting as a GS-9. However, I do not know which step I will start from. Would it just be GS-9 step 1? Can I negetiate for a higher step? What factors determine the step at which a phase 2 SMART scholar starts?

It varies per SF. I was hired with a BS in Computer Science and was on a three year GS-7,9,11,12 plan. Start at 7 and get a grade bump every year. I was also on a special engineer pay table (999b) of the GS scale so it was more than the plan GS-7 salary starting out.

Hi I just started this September as a GS-9, I was wondering if anyone knew the typical raise schedule for us engineers.

I've heard a GS-7 engineer, will typically move to a GS-9 in 6 months, and than GS-11, one year after that. Anyone know if it the same schedule for someone who starts at a GS-9?