The Unofficial SMART Scholarship Forum

[quote="ebdoep2"]So this is all great information. But what happens if you get accepted and get assigned a SF who seems to use the GS scale and you believe the work will not be a good fit. Are you just SOL?

For Wright Pat on the SMART app there are multiple groups you can select for your preference (http://smart.asee.org/sponsoring_facilities/list_by_state/#OH) How do you know which ones are more research oriented doing real work?

Also does anyone have experience with Arnold AFB in TN?[/quote]

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[quote="ebdoep2"]So this is all great information. But what happens if you get accepted and get assigned a SF who seems to use the GS scale and you believe the work will not be a good fit. Are you just SOL?

For Wright Pat on the SMART app there are multiple groups you can select for your preference (http://smart.asee.org/sponsoring_facilities/list_by_state/#OH) How do you know which ones are more research oriented doing real work?

Also does anyone have experience with Arnold AFB in TN?[/quote]

You're pretty much SOL if you don't like your position. Certainly don't accept the scholarship just to "get a foot in the door." It can be pretty hard once you get in to get SMART or your SF onboard with the idea of transferring. I wrote and informed multiple people at my SF and the appropriate SMART employees multiple times and never got anywhere with it. I dont think SMART would care (as someone else said on this forum) if you transfer while you're working after graduation -- it's mostly up to your SF, but of course, it's a gamble to find an open, relevant, technical position. I'm in this boat right now (current phase 2 participant at an AF acquisition facility).

I too would be interested in anyone's experience at Arnold.

And, as for which places do more research related work - I'm not sure. I'd have to say make sure you talk to them and don't be afraid to be direct. It would help if you could find some engineers to talk to of course. The normal HR people will make your job sound interesting regardless if you're destined to be employed as an Excel junkie or an actual engineer.

If you get accepted and you don't like the terms you can always back out with no penalty right up to the first stipend payment.

It seems like the majority of scholars are going to go into acquisition. Out of 80 or so AF scholars in my Cohort, I think only 3 or 4 were selected for Wright-Pat.

So this is all great information. But what happens if you get accepted and get assigned a SF who seems to use the GS scale and you believe the work will not be a good fit. Are you just SOL?

For Wright Pat on the SMART app there are multiple groups you can select for your preference (http://smart.asee.org/sponsoring_facilities/list_by_state/#OH) How do you know which ones are more research oriented doing real work?

Also does anyone have experience with Arnold AFB in TN?

In my experience both the contractors and government employees at AFRL do the technical work. The few labs I've been in have contractors and government employees working together on projects. I've actually switched between contracts and a government position and haven't moved desks or changed job tasks. Giving out specific pay information is hard on a DR scale because its negotiable. Your best bet is to come in with another offer from somewhere else and it will be much easier for your SF to give you that amount. Keep in mine your negotiating with your SF and direct supervisors not some over arching SMART organization so they are not trying to screw you. The GS scale is very limiting on how much they can pay you so they pretty much have to offer you what is says. The DR scale gives them more leeway to do what they want. So best advice which was what I was given. Go on other interviews and keep your options open and use another offer letter in negotiations. They should be able to give you the same amount.

Has anyone actually worked at AFRL? They sound like they do neat things, but would be nice to know if contractors or govt employees are the ones actually being technical.

The GS schedule pays usually $57k for most areas of the US, with a slight increase for more expensive areas. $63k/year is about as high as it will get, though. There is a little latitude your SF can have with that number, but it will all depend on the bureaucracy at your particular SF. Don't plan on getting the latitude.

The DR schedule is a pay banding system (doesn't have grades and steps like the GS schedule does). It was designed to give the research labs the latitude they need to attract and retain technological staff. I completely agree with the previous poster, if your SF uses the GS schedule, it's a gigantic red flag as to what you'll be expected to do when you get there.

The DR schedule is harder to find (both on the web, and throughout the DoD) because it applies to only a small percentage of federal employees.
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-121004-047.pdf

I believe PhDs start at either a DR-3 or a DR-2... though I could be mistaken. It's a much more competitive pay scale to what you'd see in private industry.

As a PhD EE, 4/5 of my colleagues took 100k+ jobs out of school and are all still happily employed with those companies. The 1/5 took a $98k/year job and is still happily employed. My guess is he is now over $100k with 2 years of raises.

AFRL was where I was most interested. Is there much testing and experimentation/flight testing happening there? I want to continue that kind of work but am not interested in sitting in the desert.

I tried to find some stuff about these payscales with only some luck. Can you elaborate, also what do SMART Fellows at the PhD level usually get paid?

I'd look at the Air Force Research Labs. Most of them are located at Wright Patt in Dayton Ohio. That's where I'm located now and my branch does quite a bit of actual engineering as well as some contract management. All the engineers hate doing it but it is a necessary evil. There was an air vehicles and propulsion directorate but I think they might have merged now but you might be interested in those.
For the most part stay away from anything that is on GS pay scale. Places where actual research is being done uses the DR pay scale like AFRL.

I am a current scholar, and have done one internship at a "DOD-wide" facility.

From what I can see, having interacted with several facilities during my internship, folk at the PhD level in the DOD are typically given the roles of project manager and/or S & T advisor.

I'm not an aerospace engineer, so I can't speak on that level.

I am currently considering applying to the SMART Fellowship. But I have heard some rough stories of Fellows with PhDs sitting at facilities babysitting contractors, being CAD monkies, and in general not getting to do a lot of research or engineering tasks. Basically making them sit for four years while not doing a considerable amount to advance their career.

I realize there is good and bad to everything/everywhere, but what are some of the better facilities for a PhD in aerospace engineering to consider.

Thanks.