The Unofficial SMART Scholarship Forum

Yea, I know how you feel. I passed on my Masters because I'm done with school. I don't need anymore of that type of paperwork. Just give me a PE and I'm good.

But like you said, the tasks that they have are not something you would find outside of the DoD. They are all unique and there may be a template, but rarely is that. I always figured this was mainly due to the fact that the Army was always working to be ahead of the curve. Which meant, they are attempting to do what no one else has yet. But either way, be prepared to basically make stuff up and reference people (people, not documents) and trust their word.

I personally was part of a V&V project that was supposed to finish after my internship, while I was finishing school, but came back after a year to find out it wasn't finished and that it was still on going. Two years later, it still was not finished and the CS guys laughed everytime someone asked, "When will VV be done?"

The saddest thing I ever heard one of my co-workers say was: "The best part about programming here is no one knows how long it will take." Which meants, if it takes an hour, but I want to work on it all week, I can watch Youtube for 39 hours and get it done that last hour of Friday. People in my office were really good at minimizing the internet when you walked by.

Preface: Computer Science degree, I was hired as a “Computer Scientist” and the most CS thing I’ve done in almost a year is make an excel spreadsheet (no formulas either).
This applies to several of the threads on this forum. Specifically the ones about leaving during phase II and this one. The absolute biggest problem was already pointed out, ACQUISITIONS. To any people seeing this before you sign that contract, make sure you ask someone at your SF if you’ll have to be DAWIA certified. If the answer is yes, you should be very wary of taking a position. That isn’t to say that all DAWIA personnel don’t enjoy their jobs, but if you think you’ll be doing anything actually related to your degree, think again. These positions exist because of bureaucratic regulations. OPM (DoD HR) requires everyone to have a degree that is in acquisitions. So these SF have a huge amount of work to accomplish, but because they deal with (as simple as making PP slides) systems everyone has to have a degree. What you end up with is a work force that 90% perform mundane administrative tasks, 8% manage the process, and 2% that actually DO something. Also, don’t be fooled when you talk to your SF. If you ask what the position does and they give you a canned high-level job overview YOU WILL NOT DO ANYTHING USEFUL!
The second biggest problem, which heavily relates to the first, is that most of the SF have no idea what to do with new hires. There are no “entry level” tasks; there are only tasks and management. These managers are so far removed from your day-to-day activities they don’t actually know what their people do. You are thrown to a group that has work, but no one is actually going to teach you what you’re supposed to do. This would be somewhat workable if the tasks related to your field of study in the slightest, but I’ve personally been handed tasks that exist nowhere outside of the DoD and told here build this paperwork package. When I ask what that meant I was emailed a previous example. Now mind you, this gives a great template, but none of the content is the same! You’re somehow just supposed to know what this thing is. The entire process leaves you feeling setup to fail and the prospect of becoming obsolescent is very real. Note that this isn’t only in my location or my opinion; I have met with many people, fairly new graduates, that are in the exact same situation throughout the organization.
The only redeeming feature in all of this is if you are an undergrad. Most, if not all, SFs have some sort of program to pay for advanced degrees. Use this time to get a masters on their dime, and go somewhere else. I truly feel sorry for those individuals that received masters or PHDs and are short of royally screwed. Given the choice, I would still take the scholarship, but I’m an undergrad. I will be getting my Masters, getting several certifications, and getting the hell out of here.

Read the whole internet... haha yup, that was exactly what I did for two years at my SF. They did not have the tasks for my skill set anywhere where I worked. BUT i servied my two years and now I actually have an engineer job. One thing the SMART Scholarship taught me was if you want to help the military, do it from outside of the government on the contractor side. Oh, it also taught me that half of the analysis is really just made up and the other half is computers being tweeked to show what the higher ups want to see.

GL to all those out there still paying off their time. It's a pain, but you can do it!

I have been reading many of the posts on this forum and found that many of the participants share the same problem of not having engineering design work at their facility. This post is also on the forum as a topic of its own, but has been placed here to increase awareness. I have not yet seen any proposals to improve the situation, so here’s what I’ve been thinking about. Please let me know your thoughts and how you can help.

[b]SMART Program Major Change Proposal[/b]

[size=150][u]The Problem: [/u][/size]
The majority of SMART participants are working in ACQUISITION Facilities, which do not DESIGN products to be used for defense. As a result, the engineers are not using their engineering skills. This is a problem because government funding is not being maximally utilized. Another problem is that the engineers are losing the skills they learned in school because they are not using them during their commitment to the DoD. As a very rough conservative estimation, SMART funds approximately 600 students a year, at an average cost of $60,000. This amounts to roughly $36 million a year, not counting program overhead costs, and any other costs attached to the program.

[size=150][u]Proposed Solutions: [/u]1.[/size]
1. Allow SMART participants to work for approved DoD contractors, so they can meet their commitment requirements by working for companies that DESIGN the products. The SMART program itself could create a list of approved contractors, and also create a form for approving requested contractor companies. This would allow engineers’ learned skills to be used, which is what SMART paid for in the first place. This will benefit the government directly, because there will be an influx of highly trained engineers working on the products that the ACQUISITION facilities buy. One thing that the head of the SMART program may say to this is that the Government paid for the students’ tuition, and therefore must be repaid in terms of work. The way to explain this is that SMART could contract out the engineers to contractors, using the money the sponsoring facility would have paid anyway.

2. If this is not possible, create 1 or 2 CENTERS for SMART engineers to be employed. These could be research facilities in which the SMART participants work together, under senior engineers, to tackle many of the current problems. An example would be creating a large team of engineers to come up with and design devices to detect IEDs in Afghanistan, which account for more than half of all NATO troop deaths.

3. Create a network of bases that have contacts in each engineering discipline and are doing design or research work, so that scholars can easily find and locate any existing engineering related to their major at facilities across the country.




[size=150][u] Implementation: [/u][/size]
1. First, contact the SMART program directly and ask about proposed changes. This action will likely result in SMART leaders considering it, but not having the will or ability to take action themselves, because they are busy keeping the program itself running. Remember, the SMART office is not huge, and the priority is on the students currently receiving funding and maintaining all that goes along with this. Once a SMART scholar has graduated, the program primarily makes sure that the participant completes his/her commitment period, and is less concerned with what they’re doing and how they’re benefitting the DoD.
2. Next, contact as many other SMART scholars who are currently working and would like to see this sort of change. There are over a thousand scholars who have graduated and are serving their commitments to the DoD, and a thousand engineers making noise will get the attention of leaders.
3. Begin to draft LETTERS to members of CONGRESS, as well as governors and other political leaders who make the decisions that control the program.
4. Request of these political leaders that a team of new employees is created whose task is to help engineers find positions at engineering defense firms.
5. Lastly, assure that this process moves QUICKLY so that money can stop being wasted, and current scholars serving their commitment can begin to be used in a proactive way that will truly benefit the wellbeing of our nation and its ability to provide necessary equipment to the war fighter.

[size=150][u] NOTE: [/u][/size] I am serving my first and last summer internship now and have been in contact with many SMART participants and many have discussed this same problem. I don’t know if these proposals have been made to the SMART leaders. I would assume that the program has received some substantial information that many of its graduates are not using their engineering skills. My best estimation of this is that SMART is not concerned, or cannot afford to be concerned with these changes. But I absolutely think it’s someone’s responsibility to step up and make appropriate changes.

[quote="Guest"][quote="Guest"]Hopefully the silent majority.[/quote]

I've always been a little skeptical of this thread, because it was started pretty much the day after the first round of awards went out last year. I kind of feel like it may have been started by a potential second round awardee, to discourage first round prospects thereby increasing the chances in the second round.

Also, it's very possible that the people with good hiring experiences in the SMART program no longer look at this forum. I mean, the only reason I look at it (after being awarded the scholarship) is because of my own phase I issues.

v/r,
2011 second round awardee (but not the one that started this thread)[/quote]

The hypothetical potential second round awardee you mention would have to be pretty desperate to start a thread like this in order to up his chances of getting selected.

Based on the sheer numbers of applicants, and the relatively small amount of traffic this forum gets, I can assure you there's probably better ways of increasing your shot at getting selected (like putting in more time into your homework and getting better grades).

My situation has been awful. Because it's still in various stages of being resolved, I'd rather not spill all the beans so I don't identify myself.

[quote]I've always been a little skeptical of this thread, because it was started pretty much the day after the first round of awards went out last year. I kind of feel like it may have been started by a potential second round awardee, to discourage first round prospects thereby increasing the chances in the second round.
[/quote]

Obviously, I can't speak on whether others are being honest about their situations, but I for one am indeed a recipient who is very unhappy with the post-graduation situation for several reasons. Because this has certainly been the case for me, it doesn't surprise me that others are reporting similar experiences.

Of course, I can't prove to you that I am actually a recipient, but if you just think about it, it makes sense that a person such as myself who has had a very bad experience would want to post on this forum to discourage others from making the same mistake, simply because I wished that someone had been available to provide this advice to me. However, the program was very new when I signed on, so there weren't many members having experience with the program at that point.

As you stated, it could be that the people who are happy with the program are not reading this forum. However, it doesn't surprise me at all that there are others who are reporting negative experiences, since I have had such an experience myself.

Based on my experience with the SMART Program and the experiences reported by others, I have determined that the SMART Program is really suited for students in math or science who either:

1) Do not have any other option to pay for school, or
2) Expect to be desperate to find a job after they finish school.

The pay and the relevance of work are certainly not reasons that I would suggest that anyone even consider applying for the SMART Program.

After experiencing some of these issues my self, I doubt this thread was used as a means to narrow the applicant pool so to speak. I suppose anything is possible however.

I hope there are a lot of people with positive experiences. With the taxpayer paying for tuition, stipends, and giving us a job afterwards, the DoD invested a serious coin in us. To pay for all of our technical degrees only to be formatting computer hard drives and being excel junkies would be a downright shame and waste of money. I don't understand how they can expect us to stick around after assigning us this line of work either.

I know I can't speak for everyone but, I don't think anyone is trying to be malicious, deceitful, or anything of the like talking about our experiences. Some of us have had less than positive experiences and only wish to be able to use our degree on the job. Like a previous poster said, I hope the people that have had negative experiences are far less than the people who have had positive ones, for everyone's sake....

[quote="Guest"]Hopefully the silent majority.[/quote]

I've always been a little skeptical of this thread, because it was started pretty much the day after the first round of awards went out last year. I kind of feel like it may have been started by a potential second round awardee, to discourage first round prospects thereby increasing the chances in the second round.

Also, it's very possible that the people with good hiring experiences in the SMART program no longer look at this forum. I mean, the only reason I look at it (after being awarded the scholarship) is because of my own phase I issues.

v/r,
2011 second round awardee (but not the one that started this thread)

[quote="guest44"]count me as one who's had a HORRIBLE experience in the onboarding process (graduating to hiring).

I'm still in the thick of it, and it's been a year. I wonder who is running the show, because SMART has changed their minds so many times in the last 12 months it makes me dizzy.

I would never accept this scholarship if I could do it over again. I'm going to lose money even after all the schooling they paid for.[/quote]

Hello guest44,

I was wondering what has caused the hiring delay? If the delay was not something that you requested, then you should still be getting your monthly Cash Awards payments, which would be at least $2000 a month. How are you losing money/how much money are you losing?

Just curious!

count me as one who's had a HORRIBLE experience in the onboarding process (graduating to hiring).

I'm still in the thick of it, and it's been a year. I wonder who is running the show, because SMART has changed their minds so many times in the last 12 months it makes me dizzy.

I would never accept this scholarship if I could do it over again. I'm going to lose money even after all the schooling they paid for.

Hopefully the silent majority.

This worries me... How many people have POSITIVE experiences with work after the scholarship?

I have worked for AFRL for the past year and found that unless you are completely self-motivated you can find yourself in a sump. I have seen people sit with very little to do for quite a long time. It seems that if you ask for something to do, you get busy-work, but if you work to purpose a solution to your boredom solutions seem to manifest. It may take several denied proposals, but eventually you get approved and then life is good. It is like crack though, the effect is short lived causing you to need to immediately work for your next fix.

My recommendation is search for a problem. Think of a fix and then write it up. See what happens. What do you have to lose.

That sucks, physics is a great degree its kinda shocking to hear the Pres. Obama talking about all the science job openings and how their trying to get more science majors in the goernment and then their not really giving you, a masters in physics, a reall job worth having. I hope its managable for the remainder of the time and wish you luck =/I'm still in the applicant stage. Waiting to hear back , i cam eon this end of the forum to see how it was going with everyone now in their positions. Its good to hear this side of things.

Master's Degree in Physics.

Unfortunately moving elsewhere before the two years up isn't a feasible option. For starters I received a recruiting bonus from the base, but I needed to sign a contract with the base saying I would work 2 full years or else I have to pay that bonus back. And second, as far as the base is concerned their giving a job still (may not be what I was hired for but I'm still employeed) so if I wanted to leave it's up to me to resign (which I can't imagine that would be acceptable to ASEE).

And to be honest, even if both the base and ASEE approved for me to transfer elsewhere I wouldn't want to. I'm already making plans for post-service commitment (job-wise and location wise), so it would be a little silly for me to pack up and transfer somewhere to only leave a couple months later to where I want to live and work.

I don't like the situation but I am going to stick it out. I just won't be staying-and if that's part of the point of the program I think it's failing for some folks like me.

guest000, can i ask what your degree is in? Im sorry your going through that. After the 1 year do you have the option of getting another job in the DOD- applying elsewhere? Or is it that or nothing and you apply from scratch somewhere?

My current situation is also far less than ideal.

I received the smart scholarship in 2008 for my master's degree. Did my internship in 2009 with a great mentor, had a lot of fun, met the two supervisors I'd be working in the lab for (first line and lab director), and was really looking forward to starting in 2010. Well, 2010 starts coming, Jan, Feb, Mar, and I haven't heard anything about a job offer. I sent all my paperwork in Jan (updated transcript, work plan, thesis/project info) and was told I'd hear something in a month or two. Okay. When the middle of March comes and I've heard nothing I start to panic a little, making phone calls to the SF and ASEE people saying I haven't gotten an offer, what day did they want me to start, etc. I'm finally able to get someone from the SF to call me mid April (mind you, I made multiple calls between March and April that went unanswered). The one who called was a new lab director to find out that apparently the old one I met transfered and the first line supervisor retired, and it seemed from my impression that this director had no idea what to do with me. He however assured me that HR would call with an offer soon and to move to the SF location immediately after graduating. Well guess what, May came and went with no offer. I graduated in May, moved to the location from halfway across the country away within two weeks, only to sit, wait, and keep making phone calls. I really wish I could say that ASEE was helpful during the process, but they weren't in my opinion. At first it seemed like they blamed me for not getting an offer. After I sent them copies of the emails I had been sending people for the past 3 months regarding the matter they seemed to have sealed their lips from blaming me, but they still didn't help me at all. I tried to be really patient, but it was extremely frustrating. It took until mid Sept 2010 to be hired, which meant that my service commitment now goes from Sept 2010-Sept 2012 instead of May 2010- May 2012, a 5 month difference.

Unfortunately the story only gets worse. When I started in Sept 2010 my instinct that the new lab director didn't know what to do with me was right on the money. The new first line supervisor didn't want me/didn't take me because he was already overstaffed. So the new lab director literally created a new position/new PD for me in this lab, which somehow he was able to do, which seemed kind of cool at first, except there wasn't actually any real work for me. I spent my first my 8 months working in a "Quality Office" helping with redundant paperwork (certaintly didn't need a master's degree to do this stuff- 2 of the 3 people I worked with had no more than a high school diploma, none of it was technical at all). After 8 months a new lab director came on board and I was actually able to get "detailed" into another department at the same SF that is a little more technical and short staffed, however it's not official by any means, I don't actually have a "position" here. It doesn't sound so bad since it's been going alright so far, I'm still not using my degree at all, but I'm thinking at least it's something a little more productive.

I really wish that was the end of the story. The DOD is going through some major cutbacks as everyone knows. In order to avoid a RIF my SF is beginning to "restructure," and my actual position I was hired on as is on the chopping block. From a senior leadership level it makes sense since I'm not even doing direct labor work for that lab right now (never was), but for me it's a pretty crappy situation. I still have 7.5 months left of my service commitment so I don't have the luxury of quitting, which means that I'm going to be soon forced into another series (and potentially different grade) without any say. I've been trying really hard to make the most of every thing that's been going on, trying to be productive, trying to be happy, but morale has been so low across the entire base that it's becoming really hard to go to work everyday and be happy that I have a job.

None of this is what I signed up for when I accepted the scholarship, and when my service commitment is up you can be certain that I'm not staying at my current SF. I'm not even sure I want to work for the government anymore after this experience.

Similar situation. I signed SMART with the impression that my job description was going to be of interest to me. (after talking to the SF multiple times). Instead, I found that the job they described really doesn\'t exist in the whole SF. It\'s disappointing, because what they have me doing really isn\'t technically challenging nor does it require my degree. If I had known what their employees do, and actual job descriptions, I seriously doubt I would have considered accepting the scholarship.

I am not asking to be working on the latest and greatest that goes Mach 5. All I wanted is some technical work - something that requires my degree that I, and the taxpayer have invested so much money and time in.

I have had several disappointments, including some similar to the experiences listed above. I also feel that the SMART program office has made unfair decisions with regard to the duration of my post-graduation employment. To make matters worse, the lab at which I interned before joining the SMART program (prior to when I finished my Ph.D.) paid me more than the DoD is now. In other words, I took a pay-cut when I went from holding only an M.S. to holding a Ph.D.

I had a less than ideal experience at my facility. I learned a lot, however, the overall experience was disappointing. I did not get to use any cool new technology, I worked on multiple similar, unstimulating projects, I did not interact with many coworkers, and I had many hours with nothing productive to do. Ultimately, I focused my extra efforts to improve myself. I studied for and did very well on the GRE, worked on an outside certification relevant to my industry, and found a new job (private industry) where I feel that I'm making a greater difference, have better career potential, and much improved technical and leadership training.

I have a friend at another facility who holds many of the same feelings.

This is one of the few areas where I feel smart really needs to improve. They have a very detailed and extensive recruitment process, but don't seem to be vetting the facilities in any significant way. You can't hire the best students and expect them to stick around if they're not being challenged and don't see career growth opportunities.

In my case the job afterward is ideal for me, whether it turns out being boring or not. It's important work to do. I went back to school to support my wife and kids, and working for the government with a PhD is a pretty good deal.

I completely understand and we are in the same boat. I just hope you don't have 3.5 years left like me...

instead of new projects, find a current process and optimize it. look at alternative sources of parts, redundancies in paperwork, look for unnecessary steps.

recently an engineer was looking at acquistions for a ship and found that a thumbscrew used to hold a cover in place was a 'specail order" part costing over $300. he found a replacment with the same specs for about $3.

also, look for training that is no-cost/low-cost to the host. you'll learn something,and network with other employees at the SF

I know that it may not be the most ideal situation, but here is one suggestion that I can think of which may help the time pass better. I don't know the circumstances and details of the situation, but possibly your project proposals were turned down due to budgetary issues. If that is the case, and you are getting a good wage, what is stopping you from investing some of your own money and creating your own project to occupy your time? Yes it is not officially facility sponsored since it is out of your pocket, but if you can do something cool on your own it will occupy your mind and possibly show your supervisors the potential of your ideas and peak their interest for investing in them.

Best of luck,

Talk to your cohort administrator. Maybe they can work with your service lead to find you another job at the SF or switch SFs?