The Unofficial SMART Scholarship Forum

Sisyphus' information is somewhat incorrect.

Retention participants are typically only on the hook for the tuition/travel support/etc, as those are technically paid out through the SF's accounting systems (even though SMART sends it to your SF).

As for repayment, there's a bunch of added language in the new 2021 Handbook that includes some more information on the debt establishment process, including a short mention of "Service Repayment" (as opposed to repaying the dollars) for those who are either currently employed by the DoD, or manage to find DoD employment later on their own. You can find a copy of the new handbook on the SMART website.

If your SF is up for it, I've heard of some people doing a degree level change and award adjustment so they leave with an MS (instead of a PhD). Might depend on how your school does those sort of things and if you've cleared enough hurdles.

I could be mis-remembering, but "back in the day" there was SOME pay differential for recruitment summer internships based on being >50 miles away from your SF. I can't remember if those <50 miles got less or no pay, but those >50 got at minimum additional money for the weeks they were interning.

This "extra" is not included in repayment; I have no idea the exact reason - possibly because >50 having to relocate was an expense imposed by SMART that they were obligated to pay for beyond the initial stipend, which IS subject to repayment, and/or it's partially pay for work done at your SF and even they can't claw back wages paid for """work""" done...

All I know is, the additional stipends I got for traveling to my SF for internships was NOT part of the repayment bill I was given that I'm in the process of disputing.

If you are retention I don't know exactly how that works, but if you aren't doing internships then you're just getting your base stipend as part of the annual amount which you'd have to pay back.

Sisyphus wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:55 pm

Guestherern wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:11 am

I think I remember a debtors discord member saying they needed to repay the tuition but not stipends, for the particular case of retention scholars. So that at least chops down any debt in roughly half depending on your school's tuition.

No you definitely need to pay back your general stipend, what you don't pay back are your additional internship stipends when you have to relocate >50 miles to your SF over the summer - since that is payment for the direct work you're doing for your SF (YMMV as to the quality of that "work") and related additional expenses over the summer.

Ok but as a retention scholar, you don't do internships. But are you saying if you live <50 miles as a smart scholar from your SF, you don't get your stipend back for working summer interns?

Guestherern wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:11 am

I think I remember a debtors discord member saying they needed to repay the tuition but not stipends, for the particular case of retention scholars. So that at least chops down any debt in roughly half depending on your school's tuition.

No you definitely need to pay back your general stipend, what you don't pay back are your additional internship stipends when you have to relocate >50 miles to your SF over the summer - since that is payment for the direct work you're doing for your SF (YMMV as to the quality of that "work") and related additional expenses over the summer.

I think I remember a debtors discord member saying they needed to repay the tuition but not stipends, for the particular case of retention scholars. So that at least chops down any debt in roughly half depending on your school's tuition.

They'll make you repay whatever they spent on you (sans internship payments [if that's even a thing for retention], and health insurance payments). I've not seen anything that indicates retention candidates are treated differently from recruitment in this respect.

I'm VERY hard pressed to envision a scenario where you left while getting your degree and you'd have a way to win a debt appeal/dispute.

It is also not necessarily true that your SF gets free say in extensions for your degree or leave of absences - SMART seems to have both gotten stingier on extensions and there is now a hard 2 year limit either in LoA or just past your original deadline [check your most recent handbooks].

Two general scenarios present themselves:

IF: you just hate the Sisyphean acid mines that is grad school and want to leave, but still think you have a good line on actually finishing with something based on the work you do at your SF, it might be worth just grinding it out to avoid the debt.

ELSE: your PhD is a clusterfuck with no end in sight and you're likely to run afoul of SMART's new hard limits no matter what you do, it could be worth biting the bullet for the debt you've got so far to avoid adding another 50-100% (or more) on top of it.


But every PhD path is it's own unique little mutant bastard offspring, so only you would have enough information to actually make a half-educated guess as to which route is better [on top of your own subjective value/risk judgements]. But regardless, drop out of your funded program and SMART will come after you and almost certainly get what they want.

I will just make a note to evaluate why you want to leave the PhD. If it is just getting messy, you can ask for an extension, which your SF gets main say on approving.

If you are spending too much time with work, check on programs available. We offer over a year of paid time off to focus on research and dissertation, so you may be able to get some distance. There may also be programs you have gotten emails about. Some of them are about facility research, which you can apply to as a PhD and that pays your salary while you focus on doing said research.

You would owe SMART any funds they paid on your behalf (tuition, fees, and money sent your SF).

I've never seen any language indicating that SMART cares whether or not your SF is okay with you leaving. Best I can tell, it would be a violation of the service agreement and they would likely pursue repayment. Your SF could explore using its money to pay the debt or working through the OUSD R&E to have the debt waived if your SF has that kind of pull/connection. I guess you could ask SMART but I wouldn't poke the hornets' nest unless you REALLY want to leave. Good luck!