The Unofficial SMART Scholarship Forum

I see a lot of negative around here especially about pay, which is why I recommend never accepting a sponsoring facility that is on the GS scale. They really have no negotiating room and you will be stuck at a GS-7 for a BS.

If your facility is on the lab demo scale then your pay can be significantly better and your job should be significantly better. To give you an example here is what I started at.

Got my MSEE through SMART
Starting Pay $80,000 per year

If I was on the GS scale
starting pay for a GS-9 is <50,000

Cost of living in my area is 82 with 100 being the average for the U.S

Using a cost of living calculator I would need to be making 124,000 in Washington D.C. or $141,000 in San Francisco to have a comparable life style.

So in some situations the pay can be pretty good. Especially if you count on top of salary the government benefits including pension, TSP, and healthcare, which is generally better than the private sector, you can make out pretty good.

There are a couple cons though that you will have to deal with. For one, everything the government does is very slow and you will have to stay on top of your Sponsoring Facility to make sure a spot is available for you when you graduate. You will also have to deal with many incompetent and lazy co workers.

All in all I think for me the SMART program was a generally good experience. They pay you quite a bit of money to do absolutely nothing but go to school. While in school you can intern part time which not only gives you extra money but counts towards experience which bumps up your starting salary.

Some of us actually enjoyed serving in the military...

I think most of us did. I guess sarcasm is lost on some in a forum, even with emotes.

Sorry, Didn't intend to sound whiney... I had intended to follow the statement with "So I guess we will fit right in to this program..." But I got distracted by my son.

jjm390 wrote:

braumeister wrote:

People don't typically buy a used car without seeing it first; why would you sign a long contract with a company you've never worked for?

Hey, if everyone had that level of common sense, we wouldn't have an all-volunteer military :D

Some of us actually enjoyed serving in the military...

I think most of us did. I guess sarcasm is lost on some in a forum, even with emotes.

braumeister wrote:

People don't typically buy a used car without seeing it first; why would you sign a long contract with a company you've never worked for?

Hey, if everyone had that level of common sense, we wouldn't have an all-volunteer military

Some of us actually enjoyed serving in the military...

People don't typically buy a used car without seeing it first; why would you sign a long contract with a company you've never worked for?

Hey, if everyone had that level of common sense, we wouldn't have an all-volunteer military :D

P.S. If they hire you at a decent pay rate the first time, it will be very difficult for them to hire you back for anything less after you get additional training.

People don't typically buy a used car without seeing it first; why would you sign a long contract with a company you've never worked for?

Get an internship, work a year for a possible SF before trying to go through the SMART program. Get to know the SF of your choice, the people that work in them and become comfortable with them before signing anything. Getting a job at one of these agencies is not that difficult, and a one year delay to your studies to find an agency you have a good fit is worth it. Not all agencies are like this, but you need to find the place you want to work first. Also transfering from once agency to another (particularly on base) does not seem to be all that difficult.

Of course if you want to do real technical work, work for a research facility. That seems pretty obvious to me.

I am a current SMART scholar at an Air Force Base in California (expensive part of California), and to quickly answers the title. No I am not happy with the program whatsoever.

The previous poster hit everything right on the head. SMART used bait and switch tactics to get you locked in to ridiculous terms. Initially (maybe the first 3 years groups) got reasonable financial terms. After that... the pay you can expect to receive is SIGNIFICANTLY less than what you get as an intern at any engineering firm.

I'll being with a frustration rant below :).

If you don't want to read my frustration then head on down to towards the end, --- I list the few benefits of working for the Government and I give some tips to those of you who have already committed themselves to the SMART program.
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My rant begins here!

First, some scholars with some degrees that are not in high may find this program acceptable. If you are in a high demand career field like any of the engineering fields or computer science you will find the initial pay (upon graduation) laughable. At my facility (and at the majority of all Air Force and Army facilities) with a bachelors degree you will be offered a GS/GG - 7 position upon graduation. This is about 43,000 a year. Every year they will increase your pay by 2 pay bands until you reach level 11, so a year after being on-boarded you will receive a GS-9 (about 52k), then a year later you will be a GS-11 (64K). Keep in mind a GS-11 making 64K is not so bad as a new graduate coming out of college, as long as you live in a low cost of living area like in Indiana, Florida or Texas, but these prices are for one of the cities in California with the highest cost of living. If you are in one of the lower cost of living areas you will make at least 10% less than what I just listed. In my situation I had an abundance of experience directly related to career field and job, and I still had to negotiate hard to come on board with as a GS-9.

Your classmates, at least the ones on par with your intelligence level, will all receive significantly higher paying jobs in lower cost of living areas. You will also be left to fend for yourself for 6-9 months after graduation without receiving a SMART stipend as your facility attempts to open up a spot for you (even though they have known you will be coming for several years). After talking to several other SMART scholars, I prepared myself for the 7 months of no income. I applied for jobs in the private sector 2-3 months before graduation. I applied for 7 jobs, and received 5 offers. The lowest offer I received was for 66K, the highest paying offer I received was for 77K (without negotiating). I took the lowest paying job because it was with a company that I knew could handle my departure 7 months later, and it was in a non-defense industry (I didn't want to burn any bridges in the industry I was going to work in). Now keep in mind these Offer's are all in an area that has a relatively low cost of living index. I was paying $750.00 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a nice area... compared to what I am paying now $1,500 for a 1 bedroom apartment in a reasonable area. So in summary if I would had rejected the SMART scholarship I would be making more money and paying significantly less in rent. Instead with the SMART program I am making significantly less than my market value and paying significantly more in rent. You are all SMART... you come to your own conclusion here.

Next, lets get on to the actual work. The work in MOST Government facilities is NOT Technical. The job description might sound super cool, but in reality, you will be doing very little if any technical work. The work you do on the job has no correlation with what you get paid. If you are an ALL STAR at your job and the best engineer on the planet or the best program manager on the planet it does not matter in the DoD. You will get paid the same amount as the average newly minted arts/music/business major.

80% of the SMART Scholars at my facility(including myself) have won quarterly or annual awards for our respected civilian categories. What do you get for these awards, a free dinner if your lucky, but you will have to pay for your spouses dinner if you want her to attend the ceremony. Like the other poster said above, the skills you learn in Government will not be transferable to a technical position in industry. If you want to be an engineer when you leave Government you will have to keep your skills well oiled at home doing your own simulations and modeling.

Finally, if you attempt to move jobs/facilities/agencies while your still in your commitment phase, your SMART agency liaison will most likely intercede and thwart your attempts. The most recent DTM states only that you must fulfill your commitment within the Department of Defense, it does not mandate that you fulfill your commitment at your sponsoring facility or your sponsoring agency, but keep mind your agencies SMART liaison most likely resides within your agencies personnel center and will keep track of any DoD applications you put out, and will do what they can to keep you where you are.
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Now if your still reading this I will move on to some of the positive aspects of working for the DoD and taking the SMART scholarship.

1. SMART Stipend and tuition payment is AWESOME! But, you will have to deal with being paid like an intern for at least the next 3 years after graduation before you have a chance of being paid like a real engineer or scientist.
2. Job security in the Government is great, if you don't want to do anything... don't. Just sit at your desk and look at Facebook all day. It is immensely hard for the Government to get rid of you.
3. Depending on your career field, you may be able to get the Government to pay for your Master's degree. If you are in acquisitions they will pay for up to $50K of your Master's degree with no added commitment. This program may be gone by the time most of you come on board though.
4. The skills you learn in Government may be beneficial to companies who do the majority of their business with the government. This means that if you are an engineer and pursue an MBA while fulfilling your commitment, you might have a decent chance of getting a project/program management type position at a defense contractor. But if you want to do technical work and build stuff, those same defense contractors will trash your resume if you are applying to any technical type of job.
5. ..... thats all the benefits I can think of right now.

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My tips for those of you who have already committed yourself:

1. If you are able to .. insist that you work in a Research Lab, a base where there is a lot of testing done, an operations base, the intelligence sector (good luck) or the Navy (I haven't heard as many negative stories about them as I have heard from the other agencies). Outside of those facilities you will not be working on anything technical and you won't feel like you are actually helping our nation directly.

2.Find the highest paying job you can find after graduation and work there until the Government forces you to quit. This will allow you some leverage when dealing with manpower/ HR at the beginning. Save some pay stubs and show them what you are making currently, they will attempt to match it. If I had known this before, then I would have most likely been a little more content financially.

3. Get an internship for 16 hours a week while your in school doing some REAL engineering work. This may be the only chance you ever get to apply the knowledge you gained in school to the real world. I worked at a defense contractor for the maximum allowable time dictated by the SMART program. I was challenged and felt intellectually satisfied working on prototype systems at the defense contractor.

4. Save EVERYTHING you can, you'll need every last penny to maintain your current style of living. Then when it is all gone prepare to live in the hood or go into heavy debt until you find a new job.

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My recommendation:

If I had to do it all over again, I would NOT, I REPEAT I WOULD NOT take the SMART scholarship. The scholarship delays your graduation, retards your earning potential, and destroy's any technical ability you may have had.


The SMART program should be looking for the scientist or engineers who barely squeek by college, not the students who are highly motivated and brilliant.


I really feel that this program does a disservice to our nation. It takes the most patriotic and brightest young people our nation has to offer, and it turns the majority of them into frustrated, negative, and uninspired individuals.

There's a lot of things that need to be addressed here. I'm going to do my best to answer them. As you know, you can view experiences of other recipients in the other forum on this site.

This is the first time I've put in for the scholarship and couldn't help but notice the negative attitude people seem to have for this program. Is this a case of people not researching the SF and asking the right questions (such as pay advancement, job description) before signing a legally binding contract or a bait and switch?

To answer this question simply, the SF I was selected for did a major bait and switch. I know if you ask the other scholars that were at my SF, they would give you the same response. Back when I was notified of acceptance, I was hesitant, called the point of contact numerous times, and even spoke in person. It sounded challenging and relevant to my degree. Pay and compensation was also discussed and provided. They wouldn't (and claimed they couldn't) sign anything to "lock in" any terms or conditions, but we were assured repeatedly that this was the way it was going to be - and that all new hires were treated this way. I talked to previous hires from previous years, and they indicated that the terms they outlined were indeed what they were offered. Feeling somewhat assured, I took the risk, and signed the SMART contract.

Midway through a school year, all "scholars" from this particular SF received an email stating that effective immediately, all new hires would be subject to different terms. They told us point blank that this was because they felt that the "SMART scholarship was generous enough" and that there was no negotiation. As you may or may not know, the contract that you sign with SMART does not cover any employment or compensation terms. In this situation, we were completely hosed.

Make matters worse, the job description described to us was, in my opinion, downright deceptive. Most weeks were filled with literally nothing to do - and those times that I was assigned something, it was always paperwork, completely irrelevant to an undergraduate and graduate engineering degree. I really, really, REALLY cannot stress enough how little I was given, and how irrelevant my job responsibilities were to my skillset. I did not see a single soul work the job description described to me, and feel very strongly that it did not (and currently does not) exist.

Wow, I am amazed that this program exists. I received my award letter, filled out my forms and waited for the money. Incredibly, on the third Friday in August I received a direct deposit of $4,950 into my bank account ($2,750 monthly stipend, $1,200 for insurance and $1,000 for books). Each and every third Friday of the month, I receive another $2,750. What have I had to do? At the end of the semester I had to send them an official transcript, that's it - a $12 transcript.. I haven't done any of the internships yet and have not had to go through the hiring process, but that will happen soon enough. Every time I have a question, I send an email to the point of contact and my questions are answered promptly. The freedom and reduction in the pressure of providing for may family has been tremendous.

I find humor in the posts that say "don't bother with SMART, it is a waste of time and effort, just go directly to the private market". I will pocket $35,200 per year (maybe even more once I complete the MS degree en route to the PhD) plus tuition and fees, for the next three years,. I have a paid internship that will give me a preview of my job for the next two summers. I also have the possibility of a job after graduation (if it doesn't work out, oh-well).

Back when I found out that SMART existed, I was amazed, excited even. Work hard in school, get recruited along with others that are described as the "best and the brightest," provided a stipend, and a job after graduation. Everything was supposed to be taken care of - I thought of it as an opportunity to rid myself of all of the stresses outside of my studies themselves. It was great and life couldn't be better.

However, in light of my experience (and the many others that are described on this forum), I would caution all applicants to think outside of the immediate financial rewards of this program. In particular, I'd really try to find out from other scholars (and even other employees) at the SF what exactly they do day-to-day. If it's what you were dreaming of, great! However, if it's not, think long and hard about accepting. If for example R&D is your dream job, be damn sure they are researching, designing, prototyping, and doing the legwork that you expect yourself to be doing. Don't settle for the paper-pusher that hands out contracts to the R&D contractors, even if you can reason to yourself that you can do it for the term of your scholarship service commitment. While that may be true, come finding-another-employment-opportunity time, you will find it will be quite difficult to explain to your prospective employers during interviews how you're going to bring anything to the table. They're hiring you on the expectation that you have experience, you know what youre doing. If you're rusty on skills, and have nothing on your resume other than paperpusher, you're not giving them a good reason to hire you over the recent graduate or another person who is fresh on those skills. By the way, most research / development / design groups will give you a technical interview. It's hard to BS your way out of those....

My point being - do not get caught in that trap! The financial rewards of SMART may be great initially, but you may pay dearly for it career wise. Consider carefully, and accept only after you are nothing less than 100% sure that you'll be satisfied.

Thanks for your input. I have 15 years in the AF and 8 years in the federal work force and completely understand the inflated expectations people can have when it comes to their first direct experience with government.

I also find humor in the negative posts that seem to permeate this forum. I am in the first year of a three year SMART award. I am in a Human Factors Psychology PhD program. Prior to the SMART Scholarship I was using VA funding exclusively, now the VA supplements the SMART money. Here are my feelings on the program in general and what I think is the motivation behind the negative traffic.

General.
Wow, I am amazed that this program exists. I received my award letter, filled out my forms and waited for the money. Incredibly, on the third Friday in August I received a direct deposit of $4,950 into my bank account ($2,750 monthly stipend, $1,200 for insurance and $1,000 for books). Each and every third Friday of the month, I receive another $2,750. What have I had to do? At the end of the semester I had to send them an official transcript, that's it - a $12 transcript.. I haven't done any of the internships yet and have not had to go through the hiring process, but that will happen soon enough. Every time I have a question, I send an email to the point of contact and my questions are answered promptly. The freedom and reduction in the pressure of providing for may family has been tremendous.

My Opinion on Negativity
During the application process, it seems like I had to wait forever. The published timeline for decisions was thrown out the window. Deadlines came and went with little, most of the time no communication whatsoever. That was hard to cope with I admit. The scholarship board only meets once per year, and applicants are kept out there dangling for months. Last year was also impacted by the government shutdown and other factors that exacerbated the timeline.
I also think some of the negativity comes from the frustration of dealing with the huge bureaucracy that is the Federal Government Civil Service System. I am a former Civil Servant, so I understand what goes on with the system. There are different agencies controlling the personal actions, the monies, the hiring, reviews, notifications and God knows what else. Coordination of the efforts is difficult at best, but the machine gets the job done eventually. In most government hiring situations the office that needs the employee is not the one who performs the functions of announcing the jobs, making the offers and making other related decisions; remember this is a machine with many moving parts. This can lead to a supervisor making a promise only to find out that they did not have the latitude to make or ability to deliver on.

I find humor in the posts that say "don't bother with SMART, it is a waste of time and effort, just go directly to the private market". I will pocket $35,200 per year (maybe even more once I complete the MS degree en route to the PhD) plus tuition and fees, for the next three years,. I have a paid internship that will give me a preview of my job for the next two summers. I also have the possibility of a job after graduation (if it doesn't work out, oh-well).

I think there are some genuine criticisms out there, but hey deal with them. Is the system perfect, no; precious few are - this is the Federal Government! Ultimately, I would recommend that you apply. If the lack of communication, dealing with a bureaucracy, frustrations with missed deadlines and other minutia get you down, then by all means - run like hell.

This is the first time I've put in for the scholarship and couldn't help but notice the negative attitude people seem to have for this program. Is this a case of people not researching the SF and asking the right questions (such as pay advancement, job description) before signing a legally binding contract or a bait and switch?

And on a side note, previous 1st cut notices seemed to go out this week or next. Last year obviously was an awful budgetary year and wasn't typical. Excited to see if I made the cut!