by RPI CSE » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:52 pm
Guest wrote:Scholar wrote:Apparently Guest2 just knows everything about SMART and we can't say anything without getting our asses jumped on or a pointless argument started. I just hate that because we are whining about internship payments getting cut people applying for the program are reconsidering it. I just feel like all the legal action and everything people keep talking about is a waste of time. It sucks. Yeah. But it doesn't make me feel like they are going to just keep changing stuff up on us constantly. We agreeded to comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on. And internship guidelines are in the handbook and are now updated and we must comply with them. You checked the box on the contract and signed it. I'm sorry. But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government..have you not learned anything from being in the program yet?
Its good that they are reconsidering. This is not an awesome free bunch of money that students should jump for joy just to have the opportunity for. This is an employment contract dressed up like an award. Recipients are chosen from the highly qualified so its not like they need jobs. If SMART doesn't pay well enough then noone in their right mind would take it. There are several other graduate level fellowships and hundreds of undergraduate scholarships for the highly qualified which are free awards. That's why I feel duped. I went for the one with the moat benefits. Now it has less but my career is still compromised. Applicants should see SMART for what it is, an impotent recruiting scheme resulting in indentured servants. To feel different suggests you have a low opinion of your value. Your comments also sound very defeatist. Why are you going to sit there and let someone run you over with a truck and say...well they are the govt so they can do that and besides I'm so grateful for the mediocre award that I don't mind anyway because I couldn't do any better. Come on! You were valuable enough to get SMART so you are valuable enough to get what you deserve...respect at the least! Applicants should simply be aware of the possible land mines in the field into which they are so eager to trod.
If this ends up being a horribly biased post, my apologies, I am attempting to sit at a neutral ground and be reasonable about the scholarship, something I feel many discussing it have failed to do.
Scholar, you are acting the same way as guest2, but on the other extreme, I do hope you see that. As for people reconsidering the program, that is a good thing. There needs to be transparency with everything that is going on so people will be able to make an intelligent and informed decision. If someone does not want the possibility to exist that they will have their contract changed, well then they should be aware that contracts have changed in the past. And why is the legal action a waste of time? Is it a waste of time to try and fight for the pay of active duty military members when it gets cut? Or when someone is not being treated fairly, should no one stick up for them? Everything we do is a demonstration to SMART that we will not be pushed around without a fight, we will not be lied to and be okay with it. Please consider the old phrase "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." It is important to realize that if they can do this, they can do so much more. Not that they will, that is not a guarantee, but that they can.
As for "comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on," the updates made need to be reasonable. They could not tell us that we are not getting a stipend anymore because it is too much money for them to pay, that would not be reasonable. And the 1,200 was promised in more than just the handbook. It was stated at orientation and I believe mentioned in a lot of paperwork. Removing a large source of funding is not an update, it is an out of contract change. Updates include policies and wording and possible changes to reporting, not this.
And "But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government," is not one of the smartest things I have heard. Did you know that the Government at one point said that people could be slaves? Did you know at one point the Government said that alcohol was banned everywhere in the US? Did you know that at one point the Government said that women could not vote and that married women had no rights to property? My apologies to resorting to hyperbole, but it does make the point much easier to get across and I am admitting it is a bit of an exaggeration. The point is that we can change things that aren't right, we can fight for the right to have promises kept.
As for Guest, while there are many other awards out there, many of them still do not match SMART, and getting into SMART is not a guarantee that you will be able to get the same money from other sources. And to call the program indentured servitude is a bit crude don't you think? Yes, it is a scholarship for service and we do have a commitment made to the government, but I would not call this indentured servitude. Indentured servants were not getting paid to go and do something that would normally cost them money, and getting that paid for. We are not paying the money we have been given back, we get to keep it. Then once we begin work, we get a real salary! A bit better than having your boat ticket paid for, then owing a man years of your life, at no additional cost to him, to pay back the boat ticket. Maybe you were doing the same hyperbole I was, if so I am just making it a bit clearer.
I do agree though, that everyone should have the rights to know what is going on! Although I still would not call this a mediocre award, I am getting approximately 44,000 just in tuition a year. Not true for all, but you can make it worth it!
Now to show someone losing a lot because of this. A friend I met at orientation accepted this scholarship because it was the only way to get back to school and get a PHD. She has 2 kids and a husband and is the major bread-winner for the family. She did all the math and found out if she saved enough by living cheap and not getting any of the extra things that she would want (new tv, new car, ect) she would be able to make this work, barely. She is going to be working 4 internships over her 5 year school period. She has now been told that she is getting approximately $50,000 less over the next 5 years than she had signed up for. I don't know what her situation is with regards to being paid by her base, but she was careful, she planned for everything, and now she is losing a ton of money and might not be able to afford to continue with this program.
I on the other hand, am losing approximately $21,000 due to my two internships, but will be getting $20,000 over the next two years from my school in scholarships that I had put on hold due to the $5,000 cap. I would not quit the program over that $1,000. But I might leave the program after I finish my commitment, due to the fact that I have been lied to and I would rather not keep dealing with that.
I hope I have been at least somewhat neutral, pointing out both sides, feel free to make comments or ask questions, I check the boards frequently and am always up for a friendly discussion.
[quote="Guest"][quote="Scholar"]Apparently Guest2 just knows everything about SMART and we can't say anything without getting our asses jumped on or a pointless argument started. I just hate that because we are whining about internship payments getting cut people applying for the program are reconsidering it. I just feel like all the legal action and everything people keep talking about is a waste of time. It sucks. Yeah. But it doesn't make me feel like they are going to just keep changing stuff up on us constantly. We agreeded to comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on. And internship guidelines are in the handbook and are now updated and we must comply with them. You checked the box on the contract and signed it. I'm sorry. But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government..have you not learned anything from being in the program yet?[/quote]
Its good that they are reconsidering. This is not an awesome free bunch of money that students should jump for joy just to have the opportunity for. This is an employment contract dressed up like an award. Recipients are chosen from the highly qualified so its not like they need jobs. If SMART doesn't pay well enough then noone in their right mind would take it. There are several other graduate level fellowships and hundreds of undergraduate scholarships for the highly qualified which are free awards. That's why I feel duped. I went for the one with the moat benefits. Now it has less but my career is still compromised. Applicants should see SMART for what it is, an impotent recruiting scheme resulting in indentured servants. To feel different suggests you have a low opinion of your value. Your comments also sound very defeatist. Why are you going to sit there and let someone run you over with a truck and say...well they are the govt so they can do that and besides I'm so grateful for the mediocre award that I don't mind anyway because I couldn't do any better. Come on! You were valuable enough to get SMART so you are valuable enough to get what you deserve...respect at the least! Applicants should simply be aware of the possible land mines in the field into which they are so eager to trod.[/quote]
If this ends up being a horribly biased post, my apologies, I am attempting to sit at a neutral ground and be reasonable about the scholarship, something I feel many discussing it have failed to do.
Scholar, you are acting the same way as guest2, but on the other extreme, I do hope you see that. As for people reconsidering the program, that is a good thing. There needs to be transparency with everything that is going on so people will be able to make an intelligent and informed decision. If someone does not want the possibility to exist that they will have their contract changed, well then they should be aware that contracts have changed in the past. And why is the legal action a waste of time? Is it a waste of time to try and fight for the pay of active duty military members when it gets cut? Or when someone is not being treated fairly, should no one stick up for them? Everything we do is a demonstration to SMART that we will not be pushed around without a fight, we will not be lied to and be okay with it. Please consider the old phrase "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." It is important to realize that if they can do this, they can do so much more. Not that they will, that is not a guarantee, but that they can.
As for "comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on," the updates made need to be reasonable. They could not tell us that we are not getting a stipend anymore because it is too much money for them to pay, that would not be reasonable. And the 1,200 was promised in more than just the handbook. It was stated at orientation and I believe mentioned in a lot of paperwork. Removing a large source of funding is not an update, it is an out of contract change. Updates include policies and wording and possible changes to reporting, not this.
And "But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government," is not one of the smartest things I have heard. Did you know that the Government at one point said that people could be slaves? Did you know at one point the Government said that alcohol was banned everywhere in the US? Did you know that at one point the Government said that women could not vote and that married women had no rights to property? My apologies to resorting to hyperbole, but it does make the point much easier to get across and I am admitting it is a bit of an exaggeration. The point is that we can change things that aren't right, we can fight for the right to have promises kept.
As for Guest, while there are many other awards out there, many of them still do not match SMART, and getting into SMART is not a guarantee that you will be able to get the same money from other sources. And to call the program indentured servitude is a bit crude don't you think? Yes, it is a scholarship for service and we do have a commitment made to the government, but I would not call this indentured servitude. Indentured servants were not getting paid to go and do something that would normally cost them money, and getting that paid for. We are not paying the money we have been given back, we get to keep it. Then once we begin work, we get a real salary! A bit better than having your boat ticket paid for, then owing a man years of your life, at no additional cost to him, to pay back the boat ticket. Maybe you were doing the same hyperbole I was, if so I am just making it a bit clearer.
I do agree though, that everyone should have the rights to know what is going on! Although I still would not call this a mediocre award, I am getting approximately 44,000 just in tuition a year. Not true for all, but you can make it worth it!
Now to show someone losing a lot because of this. A friend I met at orientation accepted this scholarship because it was the only way to get back to school and get a PHD. She has 2 kids and a husband and is the major bread-winner for the family. She did all the math and found out if she saved enough by living cheap and not getting any of the extra things that she would want (new tv, new car, ect) she would be able to make this work, barely. She is going to be working 4 internships over her 5 year school period. She has now been told that she is getting approximately $50,000 less over the next 5 years than she had signed up for. I don't know what her situation is with regards to being paid by her base, but she was careful, she planned for everything, and now she is losing a ton of money and might not be able to afford to continue with this program.
I on the other hand, am losing approximately $21,000 due to my two internships, but will be getting $20,000 over the next two years from my school in scholarships that I had put on hold due to the $5,000 cap. I would not quit the program over that $1,000. But I might leave the program after I finish my commitment, due to the fact that I have been lied to and I would rather not keep dealing with that.
I hope I have been at least somewhat neutral, pointing out both sides, feel free to make comments or ask questions, I check the boards frequently and am always up for a friendly discussion.