salary once you finish

[concerned]

Has anyone negotiated a higher step in the GS once they finished? The scholarship for me is 1 year, and I will start at a GS 9 according to the Office of Personnel Management. The salary at a GS 9 step 1 is definitely not enough to pay for my mortgage, and is almost a $30k wage cut compared to my current salary. Should I contact my sponsoring facility to talk about this now or after I finish my program? Thaanks for your response!

[Guest]

From my conversation with my facility the pay scales are NOT negotiable and are mandated by the DoD. If you don't like the salary you're kinda SOL. FWIW why would you need this scholarship if you're making that much already?

[Chris Moulder]

You probably won't be able to negotiate much on what they have offered you. However, pay does vary significantly between regions (COLA) and bases.

A step increase is much more likely than a grade increase, but you'd still only be looking at ~$1k more.

[concerned]

Can they start me at a GS 9 Step 10?? lol that may be asking too much. I'm currently a government contractor going back to school, so I make great money but the job growth seems limited.

Has anyone asked what their job will be once they finish? My PM told me I could do something like program administrator or something...why would they put a graduate science degree in an administrative position??

[Guest]

You should find out what step you will start at after SMART since if you graduate and not take the SMART then get a job for the govt you could might start at a higher step. It is pretty hard to change your step after you are in the govt. You can only get a bonus step increase instead of a bonus.

[current dod]

Most the labs are in pay band type system which has greater flexibility that the rigid GS schedule. I'd recommend going to usajobs.com and searching for a position similar to that which you plan to attain and city or state, even for the same facility. That will give you some ranges. Most entry level, even with a masters are in the 9 - 12 range for the first 2 or 3, then it opens up. The engineering salaries have been reasonably competitive in my 7 years of work experience.

[Chris Moulder]

Most the labs are in pay band type system which has greater flexibility that the rigid GS schedule. I'd recommend going to usajobs.com and searching for a position similar to that which you plan to attain and city or state, even for the same facility. That will give you some ranges. Most entry level, even with a masters are in the 9 - 12 range for the first 2 or 3, then it opens up. The engineering salaries have been reasonably competitive in my 7 years of work experience.

It was my impression that pay bands got nuked in the last congressional session. They won't be able to hire anyone in the Y(x) bands after April.

[current dod]

The paybands under the new personnel system have been recalled. A number of labs are under a separate demonstration banding that the new system was based upon. That's still very much active. Just ask your sponsoring facility, they will give you the latest. I encourage you guys to look beyond the first year salary. If you are squared away (hopefully most of you are), there's substantially room for salary growth. You can have a fulfilling and rewarding career here in the DoD. That's really what SMART is trying to encourage, that long term benefit for you and the SF.

[Guest]

I would urge you to get every detail cleared up with the Sponsoring Facility before you sign the agreements. It may vary from SF to SF, but my experience is that at least some SFs view the SMART Program as the ultimate sign-on bonus and therefore will not be willing to negotiate on salary, or consider a relocation allowance, after you have signed the agreements. After you sign, you will be in no position to negotiate at all. Unless you are completely clear and happy with all the terms, I urge caution. Since you are 1 year participant, the first year terms matter a whole lot.

[concerned]

Thank you for all those who responded. I realized when I applied for the scholarship I would likely be taking a cut in salary. I'm curious as to what other offers the recipients have received from their SFs. Anyone want to share?

[Guest]

60k

[Guest]

If you belong to either an engineering or computer science skill community, there is a special pay schedule. For people with a bachelor's, this pay is roughly 56k. For a master's degree, those in engineering will make roughly 70k, and those with a computer science degree will make roughly 66k. These numbers are only approximations, since these numbers were taken only from one government institution, and the exact dollar numbers were omitted.

[onlooker]

wow, that's crazy! i could make way more than that out of undergrad with my chem e bachelors... not really sold on this SMART program...

[RPI CSE]

wow, that's crazy! i could make way more than that out of undergrad with my chem e bachelors... not really sold on this SMART program...

While it is true that you could, there are a few issues with that statement that should be looked at. SMART pays for school, for me I am getting 25k/semester paid for, plus books, plus the 2k/month that I get for living expenses and the $1200/week minimum bonus I will be getting for 12 weeks this summer, lets round to 15k for the year. Overall 90k/year while I am in school, I realize this includes a school that is a bit expensive, but most education these days is. I will have a job and be getting job experience for 3 years after I graduate and will have security clearance and a MS in Computer Engineering.

This program gives you a lot of things that are incredibly valuable besides the paying for school and giving you lots of money. Government benefits are also amazing.

So a pay cut for a couple years doesn't sound too bad considering what the program is giving me. I cant find any other programs that fund a BS level degree and give you this many other benefits. It is up to you to choose if you want this or not, but take some time to consider everything you get, and not just the oh I could make more money in the private sector, because those are not guaranteed jobs, and you are looking at the average salaries.

[recipient99]

I am a recipient who is in post-graduation employment right now. Based on my experience and those of others I've read on this forum, it is indeed possible that you will receive a low salary offer for post-graduation employment. Before joining the SMART Program, I was working for a DOE lab as an intern with a M.S. degree, and took a pay cut after receiving my Ph.D. and beginning work with the DoD for post-graduation employment as part of the SMART Program commitment.

Although the SMART Program during the application process stated that there would be the opportunity for salary negotiation, it was my experience that there is virtually no room for negotiation. Since by contract you are obligated to work for the lab to which you are assigned, you can't leave. This gives you no leverage in negotiation. Your negotiation might consist of, "I'm not happy with that salary number." To which the employer might respond, if he is feeling charitable, "OK."

I disagree with some of the comments in the previous post to some extent.

I will have a job and be getting job experience for 3 years after I graduate...

Based on my experience and the experiences of others on this forum, the job experience is awful. I have a Ph.D. and the work I am doing is not even closely related to my research area. When I eventually look for a job outside of the DoD, I will then have to explain to prospective employers why I have a period of 3 years during which I was working on tasks unrelated to my field.

This program gives you a lot of things that are incredibly valuable besides the paying for school and giving you lots of money.

I do admit that during school, the stipend is good relative to a graduate student stipend (which is very low). But this can be negated from the low salary that is paid following graduation.

Including tuition in the income is fine for students who plan to enroll in the program for only undergrad. But for graduate students in math and sciences, this is misleading. At both of the graduate schools I attended (for M.S. and Ph.D.), it was pretty much a given that most students had tuition covered by their advisors. So, it is probably realistic to exclude tuition from your income estimate if you are planning to go to graduate school in math or science. The $90k number is I think a misleading number to throw around, unless maybe you are an undergraduate who is attending a private or out-of-state school and you are sure that you have no other way to pay for school.

And even if you have to take out loans, you may still come out ahead by doing so (especially if you are attending an in-state school), because the salary after graduation is - at least is my case, and those of others on this forum - not competitive at all.

[DJ Dynasty Handbag]

What kind of salaries were some of you expecting to be able to make after graduation if you had not gotten the SMART Scholarship? I think making ~$106,000/year only 2 years after graduating with a Masters is pretty darn good.

[currentfed]

Where did you get the $106,000 number? At least on the ND pay scale, you'd have to be an ND-05, or really high on the ND-04 band to break 6 figures, depending on the locality index. I though master's degree students came in at an ND-03 level, or low on the ND-04 band.

[Theory of Math]

What kind of salaries were some of you expecting to be able to make after graduation if you had not gotten the SMART Scholarship? I think making ~$106,000/year only 2 years after graduating with a Masters is pretty darn good.

By my calculations, with a Masters after 2 years, assuming your designation is Rest of US, you would be making ~$89,000, not $106, 000. That being said, that is still very good and I would also like to know what other people assume they can get outside of SMART. Starting pay may not be as high but look just a couple of years down the road and I think it is a lot more competitive.

[recipient99]

I am a recipient in post-graduation employment with a Ph.D. Maybe others have had different experiences, but based on my experience, it would be completely unrealisitic for someone with an M.S. degree to expect to make anywhere near $89k with the DoD in the first two years - at least based on my experience at the location to which I've been assigned. Unless they give 50% raises after the first two years, which I highly doubt, I would suspect that it is highly unrealistic to expect anything in that ballpark soon after the first two years. Again, this is based on my experience. Maybe other recipients at other locations have had different experiences.

[Joe Mama]

I am a recipient in post-graduation employment with a Ph.D. Maybe others have had different experiences, but based on my experience, it would be completely unrealisitic for someone with an M.S. degree to expect to make anywhere near $89k with the DoD in the first two years - at least based on my experience at the location to which I've been assigned. Unless they give 50% raises after the first two years, which I highly doubt, I would suspect that it is highly unrealistic to expect anything in that ballpark soon after the first two years. Again, this is based on my experience. Maybe or other recipients at other locations have had different experiences.

I was informed that with a Masters, you start out as a GS-09-8##. Then after one year, you are automatically bumped up to GS-11-8## and then to GS-12-8## after the second year. Apparently the GS-09-8## and GS-11-8## are something like engineer in training levels and the "promotions" are automatic. If I was blatantly lied to, someone please let me know.

[recipient99]

Joe Mama:

Based on my experience, those numbers are much higher than what I would expect for an M.S. But, it is always possible that you are getting a much better deal.

[recipient99]

Also, if you have made agreements regarding anything (salary or otherwise) prior to signing, and you are counting on them holding their end of the agreement, I would strongly suggest that you get it in writing. Expect them to throw curveballs.

[Guest]

does anyone actually have a number for starting salary for someone with a BS in electrical engineering. I can't seem to find any information, and what little I've been able to find suggest that starting would be at the GS-7 step 1 in the NYC area, thats only $43000 !! Can anyone confirm this even if its not in the the NY area thats fine does anyone have any info on this matter. I read through this thread and noticed a lot of speculation on what the pay actually is. Someone said a person with a BS in engineering would roughly be making 56k I would love to know how you arrived at that figure. Everything I find is significantly lower than that..

[recipient21]

Guest, it will depend a LITTLE on your SF. Some of the research labs use pay banding systems, and OPM allows them to pay a little more than various "other" facilities such as proving grounds, bases, etc.

The MAJORITY of facilities, however, use the GS pay schedule and salaries are determined by OPM (The Office of Personnel Management) guidelines. See http://www.opm.gov/qualifications/stand ... s-prof.asp.

A BS engineer would start at a GS-5 in most cases. However, a GS-7 is possible as long as the applicant has something on his/her resume proving "superior academic achievement". Sufficient proof is something like a GPA >3.5 (not hard for most SMART recipients) or membership in an honor society such as Phi Kappa Phi, Tau Beta Pi, Eta Kappa Nu, etc. From what I can tell, those honor societies require a superior GPA anyway so you usually would just show your transcript and you'd get the GS-7.

And yes, the New York area would be paying around $43,738 annually (see http://www.opm.gov/oca/12tables/html/ny.asp). If that rubs you the wrong way (I know it rubbed me the wrong way when I found out) then you might want to start crunching numbers about how much you'd make outside of the DoD and how much you'd have to pay back if you cut and ran now. Be sure to take into account that employees at your facility likely get a yearly or semiannual bonus (but private companies give these often, anyway, so you may not care). The bonuses I believe are usually on the order of a thousand or two. Those will probably be leaned out though as DoD deals with budget crunching. Also, you will be paid overtime if needed while working for the government, which is something most private white collar workers do not get.

If you haven't yet signed the contract, then your options are still pretty wide open. Good luck making the decision.

[recipient21]

And for other potential recipients, you should be aware OPMs website details much about things like relocation and signing bonus.

If you are a potential awardee (have been offered the SMART contract, but not yet signed it) it would behoove you to read over the OPM guidelines and know EXACTLY what your SF Human Resources rep is allowed to offer you by way of relocation and signing bonus. They're actually pretty hefty sums, and if you wait until after you sign the SMART agreement, you can kiss ANY chance of obtaining those sign-on bonuses goodbye.

More info: http://www.opm.gov/3Rs/