How is working for the navy?

General Discussion for SMART Scholarship Recipients
Navy_recruit

How is working for the navy?

Post by Navy_recruit »

Hi Everyone,

I am a rescent Navy recruit. I have not had an internship yet and I am wondering if anyone can comment on what it's like to work for the Navy. I have read some horror stories on this forum, but they seem to be from Air Force and Army recruits. What can I expect from the Navy?

Larry

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Larry »

"Every thing is Awesome"...

I'm very biased because I'm a career Navy researcher, but I am very proud that we have our "Poop in a group".

Having said that your question is heavily dependent on where you will be employed, by what group, and who your supervisor will be.

Armed with that information, what degree you are earning and in what field, I can give you a very good estimate of the environment you are stepping into.

ATB
Larry

Navy_recruit

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Navy_recruit »

Larry,

I am pursuing a joint BS/MS in Mechanical Engineering. Also, I was recruited by NAVAIR.

Larry

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Larry »

NAVAIR has facilities in Orlando, PAX River MD and China Lake, CA.

I'm assuming Pax River... Dr. Jim Sheehy is the lead S&T guy at NAVAIR PAX and he takes a personal interest in every SMART scholar and manages their education and career in a close loop fashion.

Work at PAX can be very exciting, very important to the Navy and Marine Corps and very rewarding.

Guest

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Guest »

How about Lakehurst, NJ?

facepalm

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by facepalm »

Spelling and grammar will be helpful wherever you end up working.

Larry

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Larry »

facepalm wrote:Spelling and grammar will be helpful wherever you end up working.
Couldn't agree more! As will pitching in and helping on work that you think is beneath you, volunteering to take on new challenges, and having a positive, team oriented attitude.

Lakehurst does interesting work. My advice is to find out who wanted you at Lakehurst and go visit over Christmas break. It will be well worth your time and effort.

Nunya

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Nunya »

If you got picked by NAVSEA (Dahlgren especially), run as fast as you can. This is one of those places the horror stories come from. 90% of the work is non technical at all, and what little work "sounds technical" would end up you overseeing a contractor actually doing the work.

Larry

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Larry »

Well...

This work:

http://www.janes.com/article/46126/lase ... -uss-ponce


and this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyoaOOAtDI0

are all being developed/tested at Dahlgren, so again what matters is not where you work, but who you work for and what they intend for you to work on. Being a "SMART" employee takes effort by the student and the employer...

GuestFS

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by GuestFS »

Larry,

I suspect seeing hardware like this is why many of us were motivated to sign onto SMART. It's a nice press release, but the real question is - who exactly is doing the research, design and development work? A quick Wikipedia search...
In 2010, Kratos Defense & Security Solutions was awarded an 11-million-dollar contract to develop LaWS in support of the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) for the U.S. Navy’s Directed Energy and Electric Weapon Systems (DE&EWS) program.[5]
Even in the press release:
Three industry teams - led by Northrop Grumman, BAE Systems, and Raytheon - have been selected to develop SSL-TM designs. ONR will in 2015 decide which of these are suitable for demonstration at sea.
My experience is similar to Nunya's - while I did not work at Dahlgren, the most "technical" work I saw was managing milestones with defense contractors. "Research" was instructing the contractor, "we have inputs, A, B, C and want outputs 1, 2, and 3 with these constraints."

To the original poster:
I would start talking with your SF immediately to determine exactly what your job responsibilities are. The SF I worked for advertised technical projects and provided a job description that sounded relevant, interesting, and fun -- but as many others on this forum, I was "duped." All technical work was contracted out.I'd ask what kind of engineering tools they use (solid modeling, numerical simulation, development environments, circuit simulation and PCA layout, dynamic simulation, FEA, CFD, signal acquisition hardware and dsp, etc -- depending on your degree). Be sure to ask which tools specifically - don't settle for a generic, "oh yeah, we use that." Ask how many other engineers use these tools, and how often you will be using them (some places may have some software tools, but have a very limited number of licenses of such tools -- only to view contractor's files on occasion). Make sure you ask your supervisor -- not the HR rep. If you are not "placed" within your SF into a specific group with a specific supervisor, I would be very skeptical, and perhaps run.

Larry

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Larry »

The concept of incoherent beam forming and the original demonstrations were done by NRL and Dahlgren. Google Dr. Phil Sprangle - he's the government scientist who started it all.

It's been a long time since the government owned the entire cycle of RDTE/manufacturing.

Your comments about finding your future boss and learning what you will actually be doing is a good one - I couldn't agree more.

I'd then go look at the companies that you want to work for, and find out who actually touches the metal in the R&D phase. I can point to many folks who never actually get to do meaningful work in private industry as well (as it's defined by this group). While the grass can be greener, you have to ensure you land on a sunny spot regardless of where you work (government or industry).

The EMRG testing is all done at Dahlgren and NRL.

GuestFS

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by GuestFS »

Larry,

That's great to hear about the start and evolution of this project. This is the kind of stuff that motivated me to apply for SMART - I am sure this is true for others as well. The problem is, as is being discussed in the other thread "some questions for phase 2..", there is a major problem of false advertising. LaWS and Dr. Sprangle's work is the kind of work that SMART advertises it's participants will work on, as stated on their site.
The SMART Program aims to increase the number of scientists and engineers in the DoD. The program is particularly interested in supporting individuals that demonstrate an aptitude and interest in conducting theoretical and applied research. As such, the program primarily targets "hand-on-the-bench" researchers and engineers.
Let me be perfectly clear - I did not expect to immediately be the technical lead, fresh out of college, working on the most bad-ass cutting edge project, going Mach 5 with my hair on fire. However, I did expect I would be part of a group / team that was researching and working on technically challenging, relevant, stimulating problem, requiring my engineering degree. Take for example LaWS - depending on how comprehensive the pilot / prototype system was, maybe there was someone considering/designing and researching stabilization and control techniques, dsp, mechanical aspects such as heat transfer, modal, system dynamics, stress considerations, etc? I saw absolutely none of this during my employment at my SF.

I do not want to get into a debate about what is "better" - public vs private employment. Sure, there are people who hate their jobs in the private sector. The problem here though is the SMART organization and SF recruit participants who are interested in "conducting theoretical and applied research" and targets those who are "hand-on-the-bench researchers and engineers" and then stick us in a job to fill out forms for the DLA and take DAU classes, all of which do not utilize the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars SMART has invested into us and our degrees. This is despite the fact that as prospective participants we did all we could to screen the facility and job ourselves - we called, discussed with HR our job responsibilities, pay, etc before accepting. I know I wasn't the only one who hunted my SF reps down at orientation to discuss these topics again either. SMART locked us into this position with no way out. If I was hired to a do-nothing, paper-pushing job without SMART, no matter employed in the public or private sector, I could get up and leave - no questions asked.

Perhaps we should move this conversation to the other thread - this seems to be a major source of frustration with others as well.

larry

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by larry »

I greatly appreciate the insight.

Navy (which means me) was asked to take over SMART about 18 months ago. It took 14 months to make that happen. It's taking even longer to resolve problems such as debt reconciliation as those have to be agreed to by the Service Secretaries.

Most of my ideas of how to reform SMART were instinctive (based on hiring HS, College, and Grad students over 25 years at NRL), but the comments here have been very helpful and confirming. I feel the pain, and can only say that we'll be fixing it going forward, but highlighting your issues here will hopefully modify the behavior of those thinking of applying, as well as helping make the case of what needs fixing within the program.

I know the new Program Manager is deeply committed to making this program a good one (for the students and DOD).

ATB
Larry

Navy_recruit

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Navy_recruit »

Larry,

I took your advice and visited my SF (NAWCAD Lakehurst) over my winter break. I am glad that I took the time to go and visit. I was introduced to my future co-workers and supervisors. I met a supervisory engineer and a branch head, among others.

Could you briefly explain the chain of command and where the aforementioned positions fall on it? Also, how can I rise through the chain of command? Aside from being outgoing and proactive. I am going to be graduating with a MS in mechanical engineering. Will obtaining a master's in engineering management or MBA help me earn promotions faster? Or are promotions largely based on time in?

Guest

Re: How is working for the navy?

Post by Guest »

Question for you Navy_recruit:

Let's say you visited and you hated the place. What recourse would you have? Would you feel comfortable changing your situation? How would you start?

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