by kbl2017 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:20 pm
LOL_DOD_Quizzes wrote:kbl2017 wrote:
Exactly so on this point. My SF said if we could justify it to them then they'll be extremely supportive. It wouldn't be an apply on USAJobs kind of thing.
I totally feel you there. I thankfully have networking connections in the other branches as I've worked for them before so that's probably why I see it as easier. Again as above, my SF is extremely supportive of us moving around and networking. They said their overall goal is to keep us in the airforce and to do so they're willing to help us switch facilities.
If you are going to switch facilities it WILL BE a USAJOBS type thing unless you are moving to an organization that commonly works with yours and they are doing an internal hire. Your buddy over at DOD Research Lab XYZ can't say "I really like kbl2017! I'm going to hire him." That is against federal law. Any position must be competed. Usually the open billet is offered up throughout the organization and any similar organizations (for example a program office that commonly works with a research lab). All employees must receive a chance to "compete" for the position if there is a promotion. If it is lateral, but someone could be promoted into the position then it still must be competed. However, I believe that if you are in a temporary billet (non-permanent employee) position in your organization and a permanent billet opens up you can be moved without competition since it removes a temporary position from the organization.
I had previously mentioned that sometimes these job announcements are created for specific people and that is true. In that scenario you have been working with org XYZ (usually through some secondary job responsibilities) for some period of time basically already doing the job. They will then put out to position for competition written to match your current qualifications and experience. This is typically only done when someone moves from department to department within an organization.
It is in fact not easy at all to work a transfer during Phase II, and I certainly wouldn't base acceptance of the scholarship on it.
If you search this forum, you will find horrific accounts of scholars who have found their appointments to be a bad fit and were unable to transfer.
This poster is telling the truth. Transitions between organizations are typically very rare and do not expect help from SMART.
AGAIN you are working for one of the largest bureaucracies in the world that has to follow so much red tape it will make your eyes bleed. If you think the government can rapidly hire and move people you are sorely mistaken. Just go search this page for a post about people who had to wait MONTHS after graduation to be hired to their SF!!! The organization knew they had to hire them for years under an existing hiring authority and they still took months! (I had to wait 3 months after graduation to be hired).
I'm not saying that this would be specific to only during phase two. My point is to people looking to remain a civil servant for the long term post-SMART requirements. I am obviously lucky my SF specifically stated they would support us in moving to a different opening at another air force facility and help us through the process during phase 2 and I really have no idea what process he was discussing other than they would be related facilities to our own. I didn't pay much attention because I don't plan to switch during the two years of phase 2 - I imagine it would have to be an extremely solid connection and relation looking to fill a very specific position. But it is not impossible. Maybe your school works with an AFRL or something like that.
In the long term though I assume not a single person on this forum will stay in the exact same job they were hired into, thus applying on USA jobs is always going to be something we have to do or what's the point? I also never said anything about speed etc, because it's government I've worked in it for a year now and I know it is slow. However, the specific branch I am looking to work at 4 years from now will not hire you unless you are already a civil servant through pathways or some other method or have 8+ years of experience. So for someone like me this is one of a very few ways to be "easily" transferred there.
I know you are a previous scholarship recipient, and I know you have personal experience that was not this and so have other people. I, however, have spoken with multiple people DoD, my SF and other civilian workforces and am not making it up. I'm also not incorporating anyone from SMART into decisions relating to moving around during phase 2. The man who interviewed us and ran our site visit explained that we are only SMART/ASEE employees until we sign our contracts for full-time jobs at the start of phase 2. So other than fulfilling our two years and filling out surveys through phase three they can't stop our SF from saying yes I want to move her/him elsewhere during phase 2. Again, I don't think it happens often, but my SF was very clear that it could happen.
[quote="LOL_DOD_Quizzes"][quote="kbl2017"]
Exactly so on this point. My SF said if we could justify it to them then they'll be extremely supportive. It wouldn't be an apply on USAJobs kind of thing.
I totally feel you there. I thankfully have networking connections in the other branches as I've worked for them before so that's probably why I see it as easier. Again as above, my SF is extremely supportive of us moving around and networking. They said their overall goal is to keep us in the airforce and to do so they're willing to help us switch facilities.[/quote]
If you are going to switch facilities it WILL BE a USAJOBS type thing unless you are moving to an organization that commonly works with yours and they are doing an internal hire. Your buddy over at DOD Research Lab XYZ can't say "I really like kbl2017! I'm going to hire him." That is against federal law. Any position must be competed. Usually the open billet is offered up throughout the organization and any similar organizations (for example a program office that commonly works with a research lab). All employees must receive a chance to "compete" for the position if there is a promotion. If it is lateral, but someone could be promoted into the position then it still must be competed. However, I believe that if you are in a temporary billet (non-permanent employee) position in your organization and a permanent billet opens up you can be moved without competition since it removes a temporary position from the organization.
I had previously mentioned that sometimes these job announcements are created for specific people and that is true. In that scenario you have been working with org XYZ (usually through some secondary job responsibilities) for some period of time basically already doing the job. They will then put out to position for competition written to match your current qualifications and experience. This is typically only done when someone moves from department to department within an organization.
[quote]
It is in fact not easy at all to work a transfer during Phase II, and I certainly wouldn't base acceptance of the scholarship on it.
If you search this forum, you will find horrific accounts of scholars who have found their appointments to be a bad fit and were unable to transfer.[/quote]
This poster is telling the truth. Transitions between organizations are typically very rare and do not expect help from SMART.
AGAIN you are working for one of the largest bureaucracies in the world that has to follow so much red tape it will make your eyes bleed. If you think the government can rapidly hire and move people you are sorely mistaken. Just go search this page for a post about people who had to wait MONTHS after graduation to be hired to their SF!!! The organization knew they had to hire them for years under an existing hiring authority and they still took months! (I had to wait 3 months after graduation to be hired).[/quote]
I'm not saying that this would be specific to only during phase two. My point is to people looking to remain a civil servant for the long term post-SMART requirements. I am obviously lucky my SF specifically stated they would support us in moving to a different opening at another air force facility and help us through the process during phase 2 and I really have no idea what process he was discussing other than they would be related facilities to our own. I didn't pay much attention because I don't plan to switch during the two years of phase 2 - I imagine it would have to be an extremely solid connection and relation looking to fill a very specific position. But it is not impossible. Maybe your school works with an AFRL or something like that.
In the long term though I assume not a single person on this forum will stay in the exact same job they were hired into, thus applying on USA jobs is always going to be something we have to do or what's the point? I also never said anything about speed etc, because it's government I've worked in it for a year now and I know it is slow. However, the specific branch I am looking to work at 4 years from now will not hire you unless you are already a civil servant through pathways or some other method or have 8+ years of experience. So for someone like me this is one of a very few ways to be "easily" transferred there.
I know you are a previous scholarship recipient, and I know you have personal experience that was not this and so have other people. I, however, have spoken with multiple people DoD, my SF and other civilian workforces and am not making it up. I'm also not incorporating anyone from SMART into decisions relating to moving around during phase 2. The man who interviewed us and ran our site visit explained that we are only SMART/ASEE employees until we sign our contracts for full-time jobs at the start of phase 2. So other than fulfilling our two years and filling out surveys through phase three they can't stop our SF from saying yes I want to move her/him elsewhere during phase 2. Again, I don't think it happens often, but my SF was very clear that it could happen.